Ep. 007 - Dining Digitally: Embracing Change Management in Food and Cybersecurity with Dr. Keera Godfrey
Dr. Keera Godfrey
CEO | Digital and Culture Transformation Strategist
Show Notes:
Join us in this enlightening episode of the Bites & Bytes Podcast, where Kristin Demoranville and Dr. Keera Godfrey delve into the critical role of organizational change management in harmonizing cybersecurity and food safety. Dr. Godfrey, a seasoned change strategist, unravels the complexities of digital transformation in the food industry, emphasizing the importance of data, leadership, and innovative thinking. Discover how traditional food practices can coexist with digital advancements and why embracing change is pivotal for the future of food safety. Tune in for an insightful discussion that blends technical savvy with a human touch.
Dr. Keera's Socials:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keerasgodfrey/
Website: https://nariscommunications.com/
Leaders & Thinkers Magazine: https://www.leadersandthinkersmagazine.com/
Leadership Academy: https://www.narisleadershipacademy.com/
Her book "Leaving Normal: How to Let Go and Move the Heck On": https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C82RQDL9/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1BG16PURO4IK6&keywords=Leaving+Normal+-+Dr.+Keera+Godfrey&qid=1686806098&sprefix=leaving+normal+-+dr.+keera+godfrey%2Caps%2C258&sr=8-1
Listen to full episode :
Episode Guide:
(00:18) - Culinary & Organizational Change Management
(09:56) - Digital Transformation in the Food Industry
(17:37) - Navigating Change in Food Industry
(28:57) - Drive Change Through Data Skills
(41:59) - The Role of Change Management
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00:18 - Kristin (Host)
Welcome to the Bites and Bytes Podcast, where we merge the worlds of summer security and food safety culture. I'm your host, Kristin Demoranville, in today's episode, thrilled to have Dr Keera Godfrey, a change strategist and digital transformation expert, join the show. Dr Godfrey brings a unique perspective with her experience in organizational change management, particularly in the food industry. As we navigate through the complexities of digital and cultural transformation within food safety culture and the food industry, her insights promise to be both enlightening and transformative. Let's dive into this exciting conversation and I hope you enjoy the episode. Thanks for coming on the show. I'm actually really excited because this is a topic that I don't think we talk a lot about in general as professionals, at least in our own circles, like cybersecurity and food protection, but it's so important because I think it's going to be more of the blue, of what holds these two different divisions together, in a way, because we can't do anything unless we got somebody that's helping us do organizational change management ultimately, at the end of it.
01:19
So, I'm going to let you introduce yourself.
01:20 - Keera (Guest)
Thank you so much. I am Dr Keera Godfrey, the owner and founder of Naris Communications, and I function as a change strategist in digital transformation and as well as culture transformation, because digital and culture go hand in hand.
01:37 - Kristin (Host)
That's right, that's true, and just like all guests, what is your favorite food and what is your favorite food memory? They don't have to do the same thing, but they can also be the same thing.
01:46 - Keera (Guest)
So my favorite food? Oh my gosh, I do enjoy a good like a whole chicken barbecue sandwich with a side of coleslaw as well as steak beans.
01:59 - Kristin (Host)
That's like a whole meal. Most people just pick like one item. That's awesome.
02:03 - Keera (Guest)
That's a whole meal. I'm originally from Nassau, Bahamas, so of course that I did not have that as a meal until I moved to the United States about well, about 30 years ago. So the first time I had that it was like what is this wonderful thing? Who invented to put these things together? It was just so, it was just so fantastic. I'm like a barbecue sandwich with coleslaw and baked beans. Yeah, so that's my favorite and it just brings me such warmth and joy when I'm able to have that as a meal. And also, too, I just want to say my undergraduate degree is actually in food and nutrition from Georgia State University. So it's in health science, but it's mainly in food, food and nutrition. That's where my goal was to be a food scientist for the FDA. That was my career goal, but didn't quite make it and I moved in another direction. But what was my intent? To have more grounding in the food industry. But it didn't work out. But here we are.
03:10 - Kristin (Host)
I mean I believe they're hiring new inspectors for the FDA. So if you ever need a career change, I mean you can totally go for that. Yes.
03:20 - Keera (Guest)
Somehow that passion has gone, dwindled.
03:24 - Kristin (Host)
But we have a healthy respect for it. Still, we're going to decide for sure.
03:27 - Keera (Guest)
Oh, definitely so, which I'm excited to talk about today.
03:31 - Kristin (Host)
So their favorite food, or favorite meal in your case, actually, and that the favorite food memory is attached because it reminds you of comfort. Is there anything from originally, when you were a child? When you're going up on an island, that kind of like sparks nostalgia for you if you've had it here in the States or when you've gone back home.
03:48 - Keera (Guest)
Yeah, it's something that I've not had it here in the US and for those who have traveled to any Caribbean island, it's called conch, so conch is like that. You know the big shell that you see, yeah, the shellfish.
04:02
The shellfish. You see it on the movies and you know people put into the airs and they say, oh, I can air the ocean. So that's a conch. So C-O-N-C-H is the spelling of it, and just having conch salad, or we call it conch fritters or a crack conch, so anything with conch is just. It's just something that I know. Every time I would go, came over to the United States, went to college, but every time I would go back home we'll always stop and get something with conch in it. So it was like this, almost like a connection to home, of having this food called conch.
04:40 - Kristin (Host)
That's interesting. I think a lot of probably Americans just went, but we eat a lot of shellfish as well and I actually have never said what my favorite food or my favorite food memory is on the podcast, so if anybody's picked up on that yet. But I will tell you, my favorite food memory does include shellfish, so specifically scallops and deep fried with shoestring on Ginn rings. It reminds me of Cape Cove when I was a child, because I grew up in New England and there's just something about it. You take a bite of that and it just transports you back to wherever you were when you were a kid and it's the only thing I probably crave on a regular basis actually.
05:17 - Keera (Guest)
I just find this so wonderful that food can do that. That food can transform your memories and just connect you to home, connect you to fond memories, connect you to just who you are. It's just so much around food that has that impact to do that. And so when we talk about protection of food and it's like you're protecting culture, you're protecting history. It's so much involved in that whole concept of food security. It's just so much involved there. That is so important.
05:52 - Kristin (Host)
Yeah, I always love the emotional attachment to food and it fuels our wanting to protect it more and makes it personal, because, as one guest said on the podcast not too long ago, it is literally the most personal thing.
06:06
You're literally ingesting what's created Exactly, and I think people forget that because we take it for granted. The marketing machine has done a really great job of not having us wonder where our food comes from or how it got to the supermarket or the grocery store. You know we're not at a stage in our society where we have to wash the slaughter of animals. I'm just saying everyone doesn't, you know, go for their own meat if they hunt or if they fish. You know, if you, if you go through the whole process of gutting, that's great. Generally speaking, the average person isn't going to. They're going to just go to the store and they're going to pick it up and then they're going to do whatever culinary delight they want to do with it. I think that because of the food professionals that are out there, including yourself, we take a step back and realize that we're protecting memories, we're protecting, you know, an emotional response. We're protecting so much more than just nutrition and you know a product or a brand.
06:53 - Keera (Guest)
Yeah, it's like you said that emotional, the mental, physical is so much involved in even some cases the spiritual is so much involved in food and how people relate to it and the different types of food and the way it's prepared, and thinking about how does it get from farm to table, that sometimes there is a group of people, I feel, like you said, that appreciates that and then thinks about that. So these restaurants that are farm to table type restaurants, you know they seem to do well or because they have that connection and people and they attract a certain audience, but for the general public, you know, that's not a, it's not top of mind.
07:32 - Kristin (Host)
Yeah, I mean because they got other things to worry about, right? They're not thinking about where does my food come from and how do I feel about it? And did the animal I'm eating have a name, or I don't know what kind of soil the product was in? They don't think about that because they're like, oh, food. And then you're thinking about what activity you're doing with your food, Whether it's watching a movie or going on a first date or, you know, saying goodbye to a loved one. You're not really thinking about what the food came from during those moments.
07:56 - Keera (Guest)
That's not top of mind, and even as we get into the holiday season Christmas and all the other celebrations that take place around this time New Year's you know you think about food. It's just not. It's not top of mind, but you know you need to have it. Yeah, I know, exactly Right. Celebration without it is like whoa, what are we doing here? Where's the food? And so we know we want it, but where it comes from, that's sometimes just a different story yeah, Could you imagine a birthday without birthday cake or some type of celebration Food?
08:27 - Kristin (Host)
I mean, people would just lose their minds.
08:28 - Keera (Guest)
Right, celebrate that way, exactly not coming you know, making grandma's special cake.
08:32 - Kristin (Host)
Forget you, I don't want to be there Like. So. We're here to talk about organizational change management, which we're going to actually call OCM, because that's just going to make it easier, because nobody wants to say out organizational change management every time. Well, you give us a little bit of a definition in your mind, how you see it with you and your clients, of what OCM is.
08:53 - Keera (Guest)
Yeah. So when we think about organizational change management, it is a structured process of moving clients, or moving an impacted audience from their current state to a desired future state. And as we're transitioning, we're making sure that those impacted audience are ready for that change and so that they are ready, they're willing, they're able to move and transition from their current state to that future state. And that's not just physically or that movement, but it's also in addition to being able to say I know how to do this, I understand how to move, but it's that emotional side of that mindset shift, because in the mindset shift we can get the behavior change that's necessary to perform in this new way of working. So organizational change management is a process of, is a structured process of moving from a current state to a desired future state. That transition that takes place in as a mindset as well as behavior.
09:56 - Kristin (Host)
And since the food industry is very heavily into digital transformation. This sits very well, obviously, in conversation that we've been having on the podcast already, definitely.
10:06 - Keera (Guest)
Yeah, on so many different levels.
10:07
If you think about an organization in the food industry and that worked for several of them, when you think about that from a manufacturing perspective, there's so many areas.
10:16
You have the operational side. So, of course, in the manufacturing facilities, we need processes, set processes in place that we need for people to behave differently when there is a change and it can be the digital space, but then also there's processes that's at play as well, and so in that case, sometimes we're moving people and their roles may change, and so that's a change that we're caring for as well. So it's in the gamut of the people, process, technology and moving those changes along the way. And then, of course, along with that is that culture, because when you introduce any type of change into the organization, you are adjusting or changing the culture essentially, and so, being mindful of that, knowing what culture do we have today and where does it, we want it to go and when we start changing, especially adding digital into someone's ways of working, it does change the culture, because culture is made up of a collection of behaviors, of individual behaviors, and so, as individuals begin to behave a certain way, good or bad, that influences the culture of the organization, and so we care for that.
11:25 - Kristin (Host)
In the world of organizational change management, that's a lot of people management, process management and trying to figure out what works and what doesn't. And then the culture. It's almost because there's subcultures too that you've got to deal with. It's not just the overarching organizational culture, which is obviously the big one. Then you have each factory in each location, if you will, via country, via state. I mean that's a lot of management of different types of personalities, different types of goals, different types of ways of living and understanding and working. I mean that's a lot. That's actually like mind. It starts to hurt the mind when you start thinking about how much work that goes into that.
12:05 - Keera (Guest)
Yeah, it is. It is a lot, and there was one organization I worked for and they had about 12 facilities just in the US, and so they had other facilities in the UK, in Spain and Germany, and so caring for all of that. And at that point we do then create a network of change agents, change ambassadors, we may call it in each country, and we begin to work together because we need to be able to, in this world of organizational change management, to talk to people, to understand what are their pain points, what are their areas of resistance. Do they understand why this change is necessary? Are they on board with the change? We have found out that when we think about behavior in the workplace, it's not just because you said to do it or because this is neither said to do it this way and then automatically people though as little soldiers and they march on and get it done. That's not the case, and I think there was a false mentality or myth that even in manufacturing, that people are you know, we're working on the assembly line or we're working to do something, so we're just taking orders and getting it done. No, the reality is these are still people, and people need, and adults need to understand why.
13:21
Why is this change happening? Why are we moving to this new system? Why are we implementing AI? Why are we implementing the Internet of Things? What does that do in our process? And then, how do we care for that? Who's going to fix something? There's so many questions that come out of a transformation, a digital transformation, digitization of a process, even in manufacturing and food, especially because we want to know. What does this mean? What action do I take when I see that button, that light turns red? What's my necessary behavior that I need to take? And so understanding the why and understanding what's changing, when and how to change, that's important. So be able to communicate that and communicating in a format that it appeals to several audiences and, like you mentioned, in different cultures and subcultures within an organization. So, yeah, it's a lot that goes into it. It's definitely in the people business.
14:16 - Kristin (Host)
Yes, and you got me thinking while you were talking about how do we balance that new innovation side of the digitalization and maintaining all the traditional practices? Because a lot of food manufacturing. As you know and I probably should be forthcoming to the listeners that we have worked together in the past we work for the same organization and on a bakery ingredients and finished products company and I just really want to know, like, how do you preserve the traditional? Because food is very traditional in space. Originally, when those companies were founded, they were literally probably five people working on the line.
14:46
And you know it wasn't highly automated and with that value structure still very much intact, versus how do you balance that innovation part of it but maintaining traditional practices, which is part of the brand, if you will? Yeah, I would love your thoughts on that.
14:58 - Keera (Guest)
Yeah, I think in terms of balancing, there is an idea of really bringing the people together in the organization, that they understand that in order for us to even maintain where we are. One situation and actually I'm working with a client now in the bakery industry the biggest challenges as they're scaling to grow, the biggest concern that their people have is will our intimate relationships that we have and how we make our food and how we procure ingredients Is that going to change as we scale?
15:30 - Kristin (Host)
That's a fair question. It is a fair question.
15:32 - Keera (Guest)
Yeah, it's definitely a fair question. And so understanding what we're doing is, rather than being the leadership team and strategizing in a corner and then we're going to come, come these great ideas in the silo and then we're going to come and announce this great plan with the team, it's like let's bring them in on this so they can see what we see. And if, once they see what we see and that's what we're going through now of sharing, here's the landscape of the business, here is our share, our competitive space, where we are now. Here is the growth of the industry and here's where we fit in. And if we want to scale and we want to grow, how do we grow and still maintain? And so now, that means that really understand our processes Does really understand why do we procure this special brand of vanilla as opposed to just purchasing vanilla from a whole food place, why do we purchase what we do?
16:33
And understanding the value of the products. And if we are going to do that, if we're going to set our products at a certain point, then here's how we need to look at our processes to be able to drive waste out of our processes, to become more efficient. So really bringing them in as a part of documenting this process, documenting the thought of it and telling the story around why we're doing this. And as we bring more people into the why, then we're seeing that people are. They do want the business to thrive, and so they are more open to change because they understand why. They understand why is important to innovate, why is important to scale and in order to grow and also to maintain the market share that you do have.
17:37 - Kristin (Host)
As we take a brief pause in our engaging discussion, I wanted to express my heartfelt gratitude to all the listeners. This podcast just hit a remarkable milestone of over a thousand downloads. Thank you so much for your support and interest in this journey of the intersection of food safety and cybersecurity. It's been so rewarding. Stay with us as we continue our insightful conversation and don't forget to share and subscribe to keep us growing. Now let's jump back into the conversation.
18:08 - Keera (Guest)
Because we think about so many companies that we know now that used to exist, that used to be the top, but they did not innovate, they did not move, they did not really change anything about their business model, anything, and so now they don't exist anymore, and I could think of several right now. Think of Kodak, wonder, bread, orders, books. There are so many companies that don't exist right now just because they're failure to change or to innovate or they did it too late. Yeah right.
18:40 - Kristin (Host)
It's the same thing with like Circuit City and Best Buy right Circuit City. Why out Because of it? And then various other places, oh, Bed, Bath and Beyond, I mean we can name a bunch of these in the US side.
18:49
I'm sure there's a ton on the other side of the world as well. I was thinking while you were talking again that because I'm in cybersecurity, I've always been met with probably more of the angry crowd and the more of the resistance of change and the frustrations of new, because I ended up being a soft place for people. How do you deal with that adversity of I've been here for 40 years. We've been doing the same thing the same way for 40 years. I don't want to change. This process works. I'm a person, I should have a voice, and then they resist it and it causes like a little pocket of like distrust in that area and then that can spread like wildfire, as I'm sure you know. How do you deal with that as OCM type individual?
19:26 - Keera (Guest)
Yeah, so when that does occur and I've never been in a situation that that has not occurred, so that's definitely a part of the work and is sitting down and understanding Well, what are their main concerns. Because if there is someone in any situation that has a concern and there is we find that there is resistance. We move even closer to that individual or that group because we want to understand is usually very valid and what they have to say, and even even if it's their perception perception is reality and so that's their reality. So we have to listen to that and usually there is some valid point there and in those cases you just bring them into the fold and make them part of the team where we're saying, hey, here's what we're thinking, what are your thoughts here? So bringing them in when it's possible, but for the most part making sure that they know that we hear you and then we see where we have taken what they have to say into consideration.
20:19
But a big part of that is that leadership, engagement and that leadership buy in. Usually what I've seen is that if there is a case of a pocket of resistance anywhere, if I look at the direct manager or direct line manager above, that person usually may or may not be totally engaged or totally bought into the change as well, so that behavior or that mindset begin to trickle within the organization, within their groups, and so usually there's somewhere that the leader in that particular area is not bought in and they may have said something or they may not be fully supporting the change. So, for example, if we are implementing a new system and we say, ok, training is on this particular day, is the leader giving their team the time to attend that particular training? And, as usually, if we find that if they are not, then it's a reason why either they're not fully bought in as to this is the correct system, this is the correct timing to make this change. Something is walking away, and so it really boils down to a whole lot of communication.
21:29
We go in and we demo session, so let's show you what the future state will look like, let's show you what can look like, let's bring in some scenarios some day in the life, scenarios and let's walk through what this is going to look like, so people can get excited and really sharing too of what happens if we don't do it and what may happen if we do, and really going through and engaging the audience, the impacted audience, in what this change may look like, and especially around digital. I mean, there are so much people here, digital, and the first thing they think of is I'm going to lose my job. You're trying to reach me and it's a real concern. It's a real, and so we definitely have to address that head on. Here is it's being honest about it too. If we are looking to automate a certain area, let's say in manufacturing, maybe the packaging, and that in especially one area where we've seen a lot of automation is that the shrink wrapping part of the packaging.
22:27
And before that used to be manual and someone is walking around the boxes and manually doing that, but the strain that that put on someone's back of that manual task is going on around. It was necessary to automate that process from health perspective for people. And so now that that person can actually pick up another skill and another area and upskill and provide value in another area so it's not necessarily a reducing a workforce is now really maximizing the skills in the workforce so that you can grow. Basically that's what you want to do.
23:02 - Kristin (Host)
It's incredible to think about I sometimes forget about that too that a lot of this automation is here to actually protect employee safety. It isn't just about pushing production out Right. I completely forgot about the shrink-wrecked machine and how and that was a manual process before you don't think about it's. Actually a lot of the automation is right there for health and safety. It isn't again, for the product and I think that's something to be celebrated about.
23:24
But I can still understand why people would still be up in arms about oh, this is a change. Oh, I don't like change. Change is hard. And how am I going to do this? And I really I applaud you for having proactive ways of overcoming resistance, because it's difficult. People are hard. I mean, it's not for the faint of heart at all.
23:40
And how, how do you explain something that they don't have any point of reference necessarily to understand because you have an overarching viewpoint of it where they just have their one single viewpoint right here, and that becomes really hard. I have the same problem in cybersecurity. How am I supposed to adjust behaviors to fit into a food safety culture that includes cybersecurity? Food safety cultures got the same problem. How do we actually get people to act in a way that's safe both in the digital and the physical space, without giving them a reason to care about it.
24:07
Other than this is just because the company told you to do it, and the fact that you go the extra step and say this is the important reason why it's going to affect you in a positive way. There are negative repercussions, of course, in some different areas, meaning you're going to have to learn a new skill that could stress somebody out, understandably, but ultimately it's for their benefit in the long run. And within that, I was thinking about how there's, like you know, new global trends they're not new global trends, but they're, they're trendy things like sustainability and the health consciousness of the public. Now, right, and obviously sustainability is a hot button topic because you know we dealt with that when we worked together in the company. Are you seeing that really creating more of a driver and in inside of the change management world, because people are trying to be more sustainable as they're going, and is that factored into how you work within the food industries?
24:52 - Keera (Guest)
Yeah, I'm seeing that, but it's, I think, as it's, as it's making its way from that that social, you know that social, sustainable, you know being in those environmental concerns that we're looking at.
25:06
I think that's always been the case, especially from a sustainability perspective around packaging. I've seen it a lot in that, in the packaging area of sustainable packaging and trying to get rid of the plastics, but then also, as we think about preservatives, in particular foods, that's an area from a sustainable perspective that people are looking for, you know, less nitrates, they want more fresher food and so with the fresher food, you know that you don't have the long shelf life, which can sometimes have some monetary concerns, but from a change perspective of changing how we work and changing formulas or changing our business model to adjust for sustainable practices, that's going to. That's critical in some areas. But I do see where I have experienced, where there have been some leaders within some organizations who are thinking that, oh, this is just another fad, this is just something that will pass, so it's just this, just the flavor of the day and people to run to that next thing.
26:06 - Kristin (Host)
No, it's interrupt. But do you remember you? Just, I'm trying to laugh really hard, so I'm going to try to say this without cracking up Do you remember when we were at the bakery company together and somebody an executive had said that gluten free was going to be a fad? Do?
26:18 - Keera (Guest)
you remember that conversation? I do.
26:20 - Kristin (Host)
And you just made me think of that and like and what a joke. Cause like my brother in law has celiac disease, so like it's not a fad, you know it's crazy.
26:27 - Keera (Guest)
Yeah and so, and then that's the thing is is the leader? The leadership role in change management is so critical, like I know. I know exactly the type of project I'm going to have and how, how difficult it will be, based on how the leadership views certain changes within the industry and within the company itself. If the leadership is on board, that they are, are bought into it. And when I say leadership, I'm not just talking about the top level executives, I'm also talking especially the mid-level managers, though so critical because they they have, they're seeing people on a day to day basis and this interaction, so whether they are on board, it's so infectious, it's very influential in how people are willing to adopt change. It has a direct impact on the leaders involvement. This is from a research perspective as well.
27:21
I ended up doing my dissertation around user readiness for change and the leadership role is so critical because how they are able to influence how people perceive the usefulness of a change, and so if people still don't think that you know gluten is useful, that being able to take it out of food or have an option for that, if they don't see that as an allergen and all these different areas, then their people won't either that perception and that behavior and how that leader speaks and what they say and the tone, all of that and their actions and how they're able to create this supportive environment for change or not, that does influence people's or the employee's behavior and their willingness to adopt a new way of working and perform and then give their best performance to this new way of working.
28:11
And so I find that many times we have a change and people say, oh, just give them training, send them to training. Training is one part, but training alone, knowledge alone about how to do something, does not change behavior. I know when I sit down and I eat certain things, that's not going to have a good impact on my health, but does that change the knowledge of that? Does that change my behavior? Not necessarily. There's something else. There's willingness, there is this motivation, there is this convincing or this commitment to something that really, more so, has a better impact on a change of behavior is beyond just knowledge.
28:48 - Kristin (Host)
Wow, that's really profound. Actually to think about what motivates your behavior to adjust. That's a whole other podcast episode, honestly, yeah. So since most of the listeners are either going to be from the cybersecurity side or the food protection side and obviously there's others here, high people, who aren't either of those what can we do as individuals inside the cyber teams and the food protection teams and beyond I guess we can say that too To really help drive these changes in a positive manner? What would you say like your top three tips?
29:19 - Keera (Guest)
Yeah, I think the first one is really to help people understand the impact of data. The only reason why we're able to work in a digital space and AI and all of these things are a thing right now and they're able to change and we're able to adopt them because someone along the line, there's a group of people along the line that understood the value of data. And that's the critical part. If people have a clear respect for the data, what we put in, what we plug into those systems when we're on manufacturing and how to read data and to understand that what we put in upstream is what's going to come out downstream, and that being able to understand the data and also be able to read the data, to now say, how is what I'm seeing now impacts what I'm able to do? So let's say, you implement, let's say, a smart thermometer and now you're able to understand the temperature within a freezer or within food and you're getting this data. So what do you do with this? And what is the importance of calibrating with people understand in the food industry.
30:25
And this goes for cyber as well, especially inside this impact cyber, because the data will then tell us if this, if we see a problem here? What other areas in the system are impacted by a problem here? If we're we have bad data in this area, where else is it impacting within the whole system and how are we making decisions off the best data? And so I think when we think about change in this, in the realm of food and in the realm of cybersecurity, is understanding to me that data is it's everyone's business, just like safety is everyone's business. You know everyone's business. Really understand a certain aspect of why is important that our behavior and how we relate to data and how we input and how we read it. How does that impact the overall safety of the organization and safety of food and what we do and how we serve our customers? So it's the ingredients. But that data is have a big part of how that now feeds along the value chain.
31:27 - Kristin (Host)
That is huge. I never thought about lining up data as part of like safety in a food company. That I mean, I'm sure I have said it and I'm sure I understand it in that regard, but I never heard of put that well, so thank you for that, because that definitely snapped my head back of. Well, I have to care about health and safety, and that does include the data.
31:44 - Keera (Guest)
It does include the data and one more tip I can give up. So food manufacturing. Again, I said it before and I think it's a definite myth that people have that people are working manufacturing, that, oh, they're just pushing boxes and they're just cutting stuff and they're just pressing one button and they just exit To the degree that, if we continue to think that way, I think that we're limiting what we can do from an innovative perspective so really can scale and grow in an industry. There is an actual digital skills gap where in organizations, we need people who are able to understand and make this link between the digital space and what's actually happening. So, beyond just pressing a button, what happens if it doesn't work?
32:28
And again, what are you doing with this data? If we can upscale our organizations where we're at least giving people an idea, a better idea and a better opportunity to learn around this digital space and also to create systems where people are able to provide their innovative thoughts of what are they they're thinking about, how they can make this process better, what can we do better, how can we make something more secure, really bringing the frontline employees into that conversation and finding ways to do that and helping to shrink or reduce that digital skills gap and bringing them along this journey and upskilling their thoughts around digital. I think it would be the gift that keeps on giving. I think that's a critical part.
33:15 - Kristin (Host)
Yeah, and I think that because we think upskilling is a legitimate skill, like I learned, you know carpentry today, that's a skill, right. But the fact that you said it's a mindset up skill, that's a lot more accessible to everybody, because not everybody's going to have time to sit down on carpentry, right. But we can take a moment and try to understand the digital ramifications in our own little workspace, if you will. I've had a lot of people say well, I'm not technology savvy and I don't understand all this and I don't really touch computers because I have a manual job and I always respond back while you clocked in on a time clock, right. Or you touched a computer today because you had to input some data like, don't tell me that.
33:58
Or do you have a computer at home? Hey, do you have a smartphone? Smartphone, yeah, I mean, yeah, you understand technology to the point where you need to understand it. I'm not asking you to be able to open up your smartphone and fix the board on the inside of it. I'm not asking for that moment. I'm asking for you to understand that you have a technology item in your hand that can and will cause a problem if you put it onto the Wi-Fi, and this is why and these are the things that can happen I think we have this like taboo around it because, thank the movies or something like that about how you know, technology gone awry creates these major problems, and now AI has caused everybody to freak out that it's going to be sent in and kill us all, which it's not, and so I think people have this misconception of what technology is and what technology savvy is. There's technology in toasters now.
34:43 - Keera (Guest)
Like I mean it's everywhere.
34:45 - Kristin (Host)
It's in your car, Like I mean, it's all over the place. So to say that you're not technology savvy and living in this year and this decade is kind of maddening to me.
34:54
But I also get it because you know they didn't grow up that way, right, the new generations that are coming into the workforce now grew up with it. I think you and I are part of the last bit of feral children that actually played outside and didn't have a PC. You know, necessarily that was on the Internet and we still, you know, hear that stupid AOL noise in our heads this day. But I think that we kind of like overlook that part of that's, part of the people process, behavior, situation where we need them to get over themselves and just accept it. You know this is happening, this is here, but we're going to guide you to the next step, which is what do you think would work better for how you work with that? Exactly, exactly.
35:31
Yeah, and that's how I work with security different depth security behaviors or secure behaviors in general, or help create different tools around how people interact with it. How do I make rules for security with? I don't understand the people in the process that are? It's around and but with food you have to because ultimately it could upset the health and safety of the general public employees around.
35:54 - Keera (Guest)
I think it's so important that you said that it's so important as we, as you think about you know, if you map out the value chain of any process and you think about the touch points and if you overlay digital on top of that, you know you have your process. You overlay digital of where, where those fit, and then you overlay where people fit, it's like, and you see this intersection of where the process is, the digital and the person comes into play, and then you're able to say, ok, if we're changing something, then what's the impact of the change along this continuum of this process? And then you think about, well, what are the opportunities? Because one thing I know for sure is for Every change that you see, for everything that's happening for COVID, everything, there's opportunity to improve, there's opportunity to grow, there's opportunity to create a new product.
36:43
There's an always opportunity in the midst of change, and so that's why you don't have to fear it, because it's coming to bring an opportunity.
36:50
It's just wrapped in this thing called change, in this package called change, but it's there as a gift because there's opportunity in the midst of this change. And that's why getting as many people involved and seeing that it's going to be vital and critical for an organization, especially in food, to see what do we need to do, how do we need to still grow but still keep our eyes on the safety, keep our eyes on what's going to that long-term gain of what's going to be more sustainable, and really making some critical decisions around it. And for every change there is opportunity and more people that understand where we're going. And that's why the vision for the organization is so critical in organizational change management, because that's what we're driving towards. What is our future state look like? What do we want to go? What do we want people to feel, think and do as we're moving through this new future state, and so the conversations to be had around this area. It's vital.
37:51 - Kristin (Host)
And because you can't have change in isolation, right? No, and I think that, even if you feel like, as a person listening right now, that you can't make change in your own organization, start small, start with your own team, your own department. Food safety, culture is start with everybody, right? We've talked about this forever and I really think it's super important that, as cybersecurity professionals, we come alongside that, because we are part of the change throughout and we can't change in isolation either, as much as we would love to, but we cannot. We also have to do the same type of things of communication, training, of course, but also being the change.
38:23
You have to walk the change, you have to talk the change, and everybody's probably like, oh, this sounds horrible, it's not because, as you just said, it's positive, there's opportunity here. You're going to learn, you're going to grow, you're going to upskill, not only your mindset, possibly a new skill and this is so important moving forward. These are the kind of conversations we have to continue having, specifically within the food sector, because otherwise we're not going to survive digital transformation to the degree that it's going to continue on this path of just optimization and I'm going to say awesomeness, because we have some really cool stuff in the industry. Now, for sure, as we're going to wrap up this episode, I just want to give you a few moments here to speak directly to the listeners. Is there anything you would like them to know, or just some thoughts on how they could better work with their Ocm or start being in their own change? Ambassador, I think is what you called it within an organization.
39:12 - Keera (Guest)
Yeah, I definitely want to add that, for the organizational change management within any company, that they are really your partners and the goal is to help move people and give them the skills, give them the comfort, creating a safe environment for people to actually make these changes. And so it does require and I know you feel like a broken record, like I already said that I did that, I tried that work with your Ocm team to really figure out new, innovative ways of how you're going to address different questions and bring people on board, and that's what you want to do. You want to bring them along on the change journey because it is emotional for them. This is their livelihood, this is how they feed their children, this is how they maintain their lifestyle, and so, of course, they do want the organization to thrive. They don't want any type, especially a cyber threat, and they don't want that to happen at their doing. And so the more knowledge that you can share and the more times that you can sit down and I know I've done it at organizations where I've just ordered some pizza and said, okay, let's sit down and let's have a conversation Tell me, you know, let's talk, and we've done that and that's what it takes.
40:26
It takes that kind of building rapport because, again, we're even though we're talking about tech and we're talking about food and we're talking about these things, but at the end of the day we're still talking about people and how they engage with these things called food and this thing called technology. We're still talking about people at the end of the day and we want to engage with them. Build that rapport, build that relationship, because as you do that, then you will find that it is easier to actually influence the behavior change as well. And that might, because it has to be a mindset shift and then you get to that behavior change. But even to get the mindset shift, you're building experiences and so, as they begin to experience what you have to say, they begin to experience and see what the future state may look like. They begin to experience that you understand them and their work. Then that changes their mindset, which then changes their behavior, which then gets you to the business results that you're looking for. It's all connected.
41:26 - Kristin (Host)
That is so amazing because that's what we talk about all the time is how all interconnected we are. I just want to thank you for your time, Keera, thank you so much for being here. It's always a pleasure to talk with you and work with you. You have such a way of bringing positivity to difficult topics, because change is really hard. People have a hard time with change. You see it in the global landscape all the time how change just makes things really difficult, and you come at it with such a positive light that it makes it less daunting to do so. Thank you.
41:53 - Keera (Guest)
Thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure to be here and to have the conversation with you, as always. That's it for today's episode.
42:08 - Kristin (Host)
Thank you for joining us and exploring the critical role of change management and merging cyber security with food safety culture. Remember, the key to successful digital transformation lies in understanding and adapting to change but, most importantly, staying positive through the journey. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and share it with your coworkers and friends. I'm Kristin Demoranville and it's been an absolute pleasure to be here with you. Stay safe, stay curious and we'll see you on the next episode. Bye for now.
