Ep. 006 - Cultivating Heritage: Exploring AI’s Integration in Contemporary Farming with Nelson Estrada
Nelson Estrada Hernandez
Director of Information Technology at GoodFarms
Show Notes:
Dive into the world of AgriTech with Nelson Estrada of Goodfarm in our latest Bites and Bytes Podcast episode. Explore the synergy of AI and agriculture as we discuss how cutting-edge technology revolutionizes farming methods and intertwines with cultural heritage. Nelson, an expert in IT and cybersecurity in agriculture, shares his journey from tech enthusiast to industry advocate. Discover insights into the role of cybersecurity in protecting agricultural data and the impact of AI on traditional farming practices. This episode is a treasure trove for those intrigued by the intersection of technology, food security, and cultural traditions in the modern agricultural landscape. Enjoy the episode!
Nelson's Socials:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nelson-estrada/
GoodFarms: https://goodfarms.com/
Listen to full episode :
Episode Guide:
(00:00) - Exploring Food, Agriculture, and Technology
(08:19) - Advancing Agricultural Technology and Safety
(16:46) - Benefits of AI in Food Industry
(21:50) - Practical Driving and Cybersecurity Trends
(25:10) - Changing Perceptions and Practices in Security
(33:01) - The Importance of Collaboration in Agriculture
(37:54) - Adapting to Remote Work and AI
(41:05) - The Impact of AI in Agriculture
-
00:00 - Kristin (Host)
Welcome to the Bites and Bites podcast, where we explore the fascinating and unique places in the world where cybersecurity and technology intersect with food and agriculture. I'm your host, kristin DeMaranville, and today we're embarking on an insightful journey with Nelson Estrada from Good Farm. We'll be discussing how AI and technology are revolutionizing agriculture, the critical role of community in IT, and how personal stories of food shape our perspectives in life. I really do hope you enjoy the episode. Well, thanks for being here, Nelson. Really appreciate you taking the time out.
00:57 - Nelson (Guest)
Thank you. I really appreciate the invitation and I'm happy to be here. I have been a fan of your podcast before it began, so I know you for a little time and I worked with you in the past and I had a lot of fun. So when you invite me, I was more than happy to join the project.
01:11 - Kristin (Host)
I think you and I laughed a lot on that last podcast we were on together. We're being comrades in arms, if you will, because of it. I'm just going to jump right in. What is your favorite food and your favorite food memory? They do not have to be the same thing.
01:24 - Nelson (Guest)
Okay, I think my favorite food is pizza and I like cooking, so I like doing pizza. Even when I was on diet, I was making keto or low-carb pizza and it was good, so I really enjoyed that.
01:37 - Kristin (Host)
Do you have a favorite topping for your pizza?
01:39 - Nelson (Guest)
Yes, everything At least everything.
01:41 - Kristin (Host)
Are you a pineapple on pizza kind of guy too?
01:44 - Nelson (Guest)
Well, no, maybe that's too crazy. I said too much. No, I'm more like meat and mushrooms. That's what I usually put there, but usually I do four cheese and then I add that topping, maybe sausage or chorizo, to make it a little more Mexican.
02:02 - Kristin (Host)
A little more spicy, a little low. Yeah, I got it. That actually sounds really good, thank you. And what about your favorite food memory?
02:11 - Nelson (Guest)
I think I have not especially for one dish, but I have fine memories about my childhood about lunchtime, because in Mexico it's like the biggest food, it's like when everybody is together, everybody is in the house and I have a lot of memories with that. I mean, in Mexico it's that important that you have the father, the mother, the humongous bottle of coke in the middle, because that's part of your family. We like sweet and in Mexico this is real, it's like a member of your family. If that member is not present, we get a little sad that the lunch is not the same, but it has a toll because that's the reason we are all within the top three people with diabetes, the countries with most issues or health problems with overweight or diabetes and unfortunately for that, because we are very into sweet, coca-cola is part of the culture in there. It's very, very important.
02:59 - Kristin (Host)
I was in Mexico City a year ago and my first time there loved it Totally would love to go back. And I didn't notice there was a lot of coke everywhere, like Coca-Cola. I was really always startled by it because I'm not a soda drinker, so I didn't really have it. So I had my options of water or Coca-Cola and I was like water and everybody looked at me funny and you're right, especially during mealtime, unless it was dinner and we were having wine. However, though, the coffee is amazing, I loved the coffee. And you're right about the sweets. I remember I was in a food market tour. They put syrup on the rims of glasses and it's like a sweet syrup and then they put more sweet on top of it like a powder or a sour, and I mean they're every color, every flavor, and I remember thinking I can't eat all this, it's too sweet. Like I'm Scandinavian, like I don't eat all this. It was just really really quite amazing. That's crazy. I never even thought about that, I never made the connection.
03:53 - Nelson (Guest)
Yeah it's just part of the culture. We like sweets and some people say that we take the whole day. What is called different is called pandulce. It's like a little. You call it maybe muffin, but it's a little different and you can find those on every store in there and you can eat it for breakfast, lunch or dinner, even with windmills. That's part of the culture too. A soda I won't say coke, because it looks like a commercial you can have soda and one of these pieces of bread, the pandulce, and that's a meal for some people.
04:23 - Kristin (Host)
Well, with all the sugar, I think it probably would be a meal right? Yeah, you know, have some sugar with your food. I hope people aren't sprinkling more sugar on top of it or anything like that. Oh my goodness, that's so fabulous. Thank you so much for sharing that. I really love these questions from the guests and they really just get my mind thinking about all the places that I've been and all the lovely things. Because food is such a binder Culturally, it's the first thing I go towards when I travel to a new place. I do a street tour to get myself used to the textures of the food or the type of food, because, especially countries that I haven't experienced on the US side, it's super important to understand the culture dynamics of it, whether it is that texture or when do you eat certain things and how do you proceed. I'm very grateful I did that when I went to China, for example. Otherwise I probably wanted to survive the food. That tour, really helped.
05:15
Thankfully Snake was out of season so I did not experience that. I'm sure it's delicious, I just don't want it. But again, I'm really grateful for that kind of experience. So I'm glad to hear that you had such a great upbringing and always had your guests at the table, which was a Coca-Cola bottle and a family member, an important family member. Anyway, Nelson, can you share a little bit about your journey and how you started down the path of working in agriculture and food? And also, I just realized that you haven't introduced yourself, so you better introduce yourself too.
05:50 - Nelson (Guest)
You are right. Where are my manners? We went directly to the food, as usual, sorry.
05:55 - Kristin (Host)
I mean, it's important. We're talking about food. We have to get to the important stuff.
06:00 - Nelson (Guest)
Yes, let me introduce myself Very pleased to be here. My name is Nelson Estrada. I work for Goodfarms. I have been the director of IT for five years. I began in IT very young. I was a PC integrator. I began building computers from scratch First just for fun. Then I saw there was a business in there. I started building computers for other people. Then I joined the labor sector for that and I went to school to study electronics and there I met the computers the first time. I entered to a laboratory and I started working with some very basic programming. I fell in love with the career. From there I took some certifications like Cisco and everything that was available in there. I started growing and working on more companies.
06:42
I have worked for IBM, walmart, the Mexican government and I moved to agriculture 11 years ago. I was working precisely for the Mexican government and one of the projects and I saw this opportunity to join some growers where I live. I made the interview and they really liked it. I was able to speak both just anything Spanish and English. I knew about electronics so I could fix the machines that are in the field and we started discussing and from there I became the manager of the placing there in the company like my job, and then asked me to move to the US. So I moved to the US maybe seven years ago and started working with this company. I have been with them 12 years and it has been a great journey.
07:24
Then I got to cybersecurity, first because of the need because we don't have a big team of people that you need to learn a lot when you work for farmers. But again I saw this was a great source of learning and I really enjoy cybersecurity. And again I started doing my certifications and working here and there. I have been invited to do some podcasts, to do some talks, and I really enjoy it and I really appreciate the opportunity because I noticed there are not much people that are on the IT sector working with farmers that do cybersecurity. So I'm glad to be here and inviting people. Please, I mean, look at us. I mean we are the food sector. We need experts. Please, I mean, come here. We don't have the big budgets, we don't have the big salaries, but if you look what you do and you look food, maybe you have an opportunity here and we'll be ready if you can put your sight in us and give us a voice.
08:16 - Kristin (Host)
Yeah, that's awesome. I, as you're talking, I was thinking about how I think that's how most people get into IT as well, back in the day. I'll say back in the day because now, like you, can go to college for it and that's still strange Still to this day. But I started the same way, building PCs, and kind of got used to that and learned how to do more of the admin tasks before I actually got to the tech tasks so I could deal with the people that were angry and upset about their technology breaking as well as fix it, especially on the fly. So that's a great way to step into the career. And then moving into the fact that you enjoy doing, you know, the electrical, mechanical type work, and that's great because that fits in perfectly with what you do right now, because you can't exactly call somebody up when you're standing in the middle of a field trying to deal with something. Right, you know you have to be able to troubleshoot on your own or at least get to the point where you could have an intelligent conversation about troubleshooting when you get back into service, in terms of, like cell phone service is what I mean. And you're right, we have.
09:13
We have a lot of IT and cybersecurity that works around food and agriculture, but not really in it, and this is why, as you know, Nelson, we've talked about this so many times. This is why this podcast was born. This is why my company was born, because we really need to start focusing on this critical infrastructure and that journey of how do we keep everything safe, not only from a technology standpoint, but on a food safety perspective, and this is great. I love this, and you have some great stories about working at your company. Do you wanna share a few about the learning how to do IT with farming equipment and working with farmers and experiencing that watching people grow things and harvest them?
09:53 - Nelson (Guest)
Yes, of course. I mean it has its learning curve and it's difficult because you have low budget. Usually you have people that is not very tech savvy and you need to teach them. You need to work with them like from the very basics. I have people that are very good users. They are tech savvy but I mean I think maybe 90%. They very know how to use a computer. They just learn what you tell them and that's it.
10:19
Some people they say hey, we don't have internet in the office. Everything went down. But I need to accomplish this. Please connect to my machine and fix it. And I said oh wait, you said you don't have internet. How I cannot say that? I say I use other words. Of course I try to explain, but that's the difficult we have. Okay, sorry, I cannot help you right now. First we need to fix this. Let me call the internet service provider and stuff like that. But yes, I mean things are changing. I mean farmers are using more and more technology because they see the benefit.
10:49
We were discussing the other day about robotics. I mean this is newer and it's more present. Every day More companies are testing them and it's a great tool. And I want to make a point in there like yes, issa tool Some people is very afraid of this is gonna take my job. It's the scare. We are humans, we have this kind of scare all the time. But right now I mean ISSA tool and it comes to fulfill a need. We lack enough people for working on the farms right now. We need to bring people from other countries. This is real. We offer a visa Okay, come work with us for six and months. We offer housing, we offer health services. We offer everything this kind of money from other countries, because here in the US we don't have enough people to work. So robot come very handy in there. So this is part of fulfilling a need. It's not like we want to get rid of the workforce. No, I mean this is a tool Because if you have some robots, you have all the people that was working on the field to do other things.
11:46
They need to adapt and they need to learn. Right now they are still very, very expensive. They are very expensive machines. So maybe in the future they will go a time when they will replace us. I mean I say cost because they are not saying that I'm doing cost right now, but this just means we just need to move to another stuff, the same people that were working in the field. Maybe they will be servicing the robot or will be doing some more administration tasks than on the field.
12:12
But yes, I mean it has been quite a challenge and I have a few stories that you said. One was about the robots, how expensive they are, that we need to take care of them and how we still are learning. The first time the robots came, I mean it was like the POTUS or the president was on the field Please step in there, please don't look here. I mean, here comes the robot, don't do anything, don't sneeze, don't look at wrong. Right now, I mean they are more autonomous, we learn, we have our sense, or so it's safer. But yes, it was quite a challenge it was. Now we are laughing, but at the beginning we are all scared the users and the operators and everything.
12:48 - Kristin (Host)
You know I was reading an article and I think I was having a conversation with somebody earlier that we're talking about how AI is very prevalent in the industry now more so than I think most people realize, but it's been there for a while. We just, like you said, it's a tool, especially in the food industry. It's been used as automation as part of the deal, like it's part of the process. However, somebody was talking about how AI is probably going to really start helping agriculture more especially when it comes to marginalized groups, and helping those small farmers or those mid-sized farmers actually be able to complete their tasks, like you said, without a labor force and be able to do it in a more efficient manner and, for it, with cost savings. And somebody was saying, oh, that means our food's going to be more expensive. And I thought to myself, if it's done in a safe way, that's safely handled and also doesn't hurt people, both on a labor front and a food front, ingestion front like I think that's a brilliant thing. I think it's great that we're doing robots and AI and all this really amazing tech. I just really wish that, when people talked about it as well, they talk about how safe it also is and how it's really good and you don't have to be afraid of it Because we started creating this problem Nelson, I know you and I have discussed this too where AI has become like the new jaws.
14:00
Right, the movie Jaws made everybody afraid of sharks and we really shouldn't be afraid of sharks. Generally speaking, they're really not going to bother us. We're walking into their house. If you mess with something, then, yeah, it's going to be a problem, same with a bear in the woods. But AI isn't a shark, it isn't a bear. It's human created, human controlled. It's not going to be sentient and slap you Not yet, at least not for a very long time. That ever did happen. It would be way past our lifetimes.
14:25
And I just think it's ridiculous that we've started romanticizing AI to the point where it's just silly. Now it's sort of silly to me. And then you have people that are like I'm scared of it. And the food industry. You can't be, because we need it to have safe production for employees and, on top of that, it does keep the food safer because we're not touching it. 99.9% of problems in the food industry and tech and security and all things otherwise are caused by humans. So this is just one way to help mitigate that. Ultimately, we're managing the risk with technology and I think it's great that you're such an advocate for that and trying to move forward, because otherwise, if we don't have the right advocates for especially in this industry, it's just going to turn into, like I said, a Jaws scare situation and sharks are evil.
15:10 - Nelson (Guest)
Yes, and this is misinformation and it's new technology, but it's not that new as people think, because we have been using some kind of AI from long years. Agriculture is a lot of data. You need to ingest a lot of numbers to create your statistics, and AI comes very handy in here, because it's great to correlate all this data and give you a result. Right now, we are using this data to create prediction prediction of the all the food we will have during the season, the prediction of the diseases we expect to have. So this is very handy and it's needed, as you said, okay, it's going to be more expensive. Well, someone has to pay. Maybe we need to find new ways to do it, but look at that this way, because we're bringing a solution. If we can prepare to having all these diseases for this season, you can prepare and then you don't impact the price. There are ways to do it, safe ways to do it.
16:10 - Kristin (Host)
We're going to take a quick break. I hope you're enjoying the conversation. If you find value in this episode, please share it with your friends and colleagues. Your support is invaluable in spreading these important discussions. Thank you so much. Also, don't forget to like and subscribe to the show for more insightful content. Stay with us as we continue to explore how personal experiences and community impacts are as important as technological advancements in shaping the future of farming.
16:33 - Nelson (Guest)
Stay tuned, we'll be right back Well, coming back to the AI tool, yes, it's a tool. It's needed, it's a great benefit and it's not that bad as many people think. As you said, some people blame Hollywood because of the scary thing about the jobs and other movies. You know how I calm my users about that? Because they are afraid of AI and they, when they say AI, they think it's all chat GPT, a generative AI. And I tell them okay, go to chat GPT, because they have it on the phone, they have an app right now and everybody's using it as a new Google or as a new Wikipedia. I ask them go to chat GPT and ask chat GPT, give me a random number and it will give you a random number. It's not even a crazy one, maybe 743. Okay, here's the number and ask him how you came to that number and it will answer you because I don't have access to real randomness.
17:29
I created a pseudo number that is based on these. I don't have access to real randomness and what it means that this is still the basis of computers. Computers cannot do anything by themselves. It cannot even create a real random number. It created a pseudo random number made in the future with quantum computer, if it has some access to atmospheric pattern. That's real randomness. Maybe we should worry because that will create some chaos. It will do different things, but right now this is a tool created for people to act like a human. Answer you like a human, but this is the same. You can see it as Google with asteroids or Wikipedia 3.0, because it has all the information already in there and if you present it in a very nice way, like you are discussing with another person, that's the reason it's a chat. But yes, I kind of okay. If it cannot create this pseudo number, it cannot create crazy ideas. It won't kill you. It's not the new Skynet, so be calm for now.
18:25 - Kristin (Host)
Yeah, I completely understand that, and I am so grateful, though, that the food industry is adapting and they're okay with it, and we've talked about this too that digital transformation and digitization in general with the food industry is something that's just really natural fit. It goes really easily. The problem is, as they advance and upgrade, as you know, we need people to support it like yourself, Nelson, like me and that becomes the daunting task because, as you've said to me before, it's a struggle to have that knowledge set in this industry, as well as speak the additional languages that are required, have the right set of skills. Sometimes you need to have an engineering kind of background, electrician background at times. Sometimes you have to understand parts of the business that you wouldn't necessarily do otherwise, such as sanitation or even quality.
19:13
So I think it takes a really special person to work in this industry, and I'm glad you're here, Nelson for sure, because you obviously are very passionate about it. It's one of the reasons why I enjoy talking with you is because I learn something new every time we discuss any of this, so I appreciate it. I wanted to know if you had any advice for any of the cybersecurity professionals that are listening, or the IT people in general, or even just the regular listeners, which I know there are quite a few here, for how do they get involved in this industry? Learning about the food industry and agriculture specifically?
19:45 - Nelson (Guest)
Yes, and I want to thank you personally for the invitation, for being an advocate of IT and food, because they are usually a part and you are the gap right now. This project is great. I see you are inviting some people from different industries cybersecurity, it, the food industry, administration of people, hr so this is very good and thank you for that, and I really enjoy working with you and I would like to support you for this and new projects. I will say to the people that are listening that you can begin in IT and it's easier than ever right now. Right now, it's very common to have a certification, and we have certifications that begin from scratch, even if you haven't been in front of a computer before, and they are very broad and they can take you by hand. You can take this on the comfort of your home. You can assist to classes, you can just watch YouTube. If you want to do it for free, you can do it. You can learn the basics, but what is very important in here is having hands on experience, and that's the difficult part, that the tricky part. So you need to complement that, because it's great having the basics, but you need the hands on the experience. For that there are options. I see some people struggling having a job right now on IT and cybersecurity. Well, there are options when you can offer your services for free. Sometimes it's not an option for you because you need the income, but if you have a job right now, you have a job and you want to jump to IT, you want to jump to the food sector industry, you can do your services, volunteer, and that will give you a lot of experience. There are schools, there are some companies that will be more than happy to having you two hours a day or maybe three hours a day, and that will give you the foundation for all what you have learned. Because, yes, it's great learning from YouTube, it's great learning from these certifications, but if you don't have the hands on the experience, you are not complete. I mean, you cannot even apply for a job, because that's another thing we are seeing. Ok, I have this entry level position, this is for this IT position, but I need three years of experience or four, and when they see, ok, I don't have experience, or I just had experience with the simulators, it's not that.
21:50
Actually, I learned this from my wife, because my wife she told me recently that she wanted to learn how to drive because her family never had a car, so she never learned. And she said I mean, I must learn to drive. It's very difficult in this country not having your own car, so please teach me how to drive. And I said I'm sorry, honey, but I'm very busy right now and traveling. Go to YouTube and watch some videos. And she said yes, yes, honey, I did, and they are all the same for driving. You don't like this and don't like that and like this.
22:22
And it's true, she had a point. You cannot learn how to drive from YouTube. You could learn the basics, but you will never pass an exam, the practice exam, if you have never been on a car. Even if you have the most powerful simulator that vibrates and it has the wheel and the pedals, if you are putting on the I don't know on the freeway in Los Angeles at a peak time, you will be destroyed. You cannot do that. That's the reason you learn hands on the experience.
22:49 - Kristin (Host)
Wow, that is the best way I've ever heard someone describe having hands on experience. You can't learn how to drive from YouTube. I feel like that is quotable. That is unbelievable. And you're so right, though and she's so right you actually have to go out and have the practical experience behind the wheel you also. You need it because you're going to have to pass the exam at some point, not just the written, but the actual practical exam.
23:11
You're so right, though and what a great advice because people forget that IT and cybersecurity skills are actually transferable from a volunteer standpoint. I mean, you can volunteer with any of children's organizations teaching them. They're probably going to teach you, but you can try to teach them and you can volunteer for nursing homes. They still need to know how to be on the internet safely. You could do different events with the agricultural space. You can go, you know, help pick. You can help harvest time.
23:36
There are opportunities, especially for cybersecurity, to help volunteer for cyber games. I just recently did that this year, and it was awesome. It was my favorite cyber event I've ever been to was watching these. You know, young adults just majorly dominate teamwork wise and these different tasks and different obstacles that they had to get through for cybersecurity, cracking and various hacks. It was amazing. So I think that people forget that there's such a benefit, or multiple benefits, really to volunteering your time and your knowledge sets. Thank you. So it's a great advice. That is such great advice. I'm glad that she did not learn how to drive from YouTube. I feel like that's all I'm saying.
24:15 - Nelson (Guest)
Oh my goodness. So let's look at what you made me do. I'm sharing personal stuff. That's what I have with you.
24:20 - Kristin (Host)
I do have that effect on people I've heard. So, moving forward though, I want to continue kind of down this, this road of a futuristic view. So what do you see envisioning for the future of cybersecurity and IT within the food?
24:35 - Nelson (Guest)
industry.
24:36 - Kristin (Host)
And let's just start there, and then the second half of this question will be emerging trends and technology. You think you're going to come into the into fruition over the next, let's say, three to five years.
24:46 - Nelson (Guest)
Yeah, I mean the future for farmers. I mean they need to change their mindset because they can invest in some stuff they can see. They can invest in tractors, they can invest on fertilizer, they can invest maybe right now in antivirus because they have seen the benefits. But the extra leaders having a XDR or having an MDR service that's that can. That is very difficult for them. So they need to change that mindset.
25:10
Thankfully, big events like the MGM that recently happened opened the eyes for most people and everyone is changing. Everybody is more worried about their security. I want to be positive. I see a lot of change because those events help the people to conscientize like it can happen to you, it can happen to anyone. These people with this great budget for cybersecurity, for IT people that is trained, they got had and they use social engineer I mean humans are still the weakest link and this is helping the companies to say, OK, we need to invest not only on tools, we need to invest in people, we need to train the users and I haven't seen slowly this is changing and I see more adoption of these MDR services.
25:52
Right now, the EDR part the endpoint detection and response is the very basic, but we need to go above, because if there is no one on the other side watching all the others watching what's happening, it's not that great. It's like having a CCTV at your home yes, you have a lot of cameras 4K cameras and everything but if there is no, there is no one on the other side watching the cameras what's happening. That's not a good solution. This is same with EDR. So people is moving slowly to MDR, XDR and they are seeing the benefit and this is this is great, because everyone will be more protected. I see more adoption to finally, multi factor authentication. In the beginning it was very difficult. Just people say, oh, I just have my strong password because it has a number at the end, or maybe I have the question mark at the end and nobody thinks about that, or they go crazy. Capital letter to Nelson capital letter.
26:46
I have two capital letters. I mean nobody will answer. They didn't, nobody will guess it. So I see more adoption about using password managers and adopting multi factor authentication. Some people still rely a lot of SMS. I mean it's not the best for this way. Better than not having multi factor authentication. Companies are pushing it, banks, government, everybody is pushing. So this is becoming a more secure environment. I know they are hackable, but I mean hackers. Sometimes I mean hacking the account that has no MFA. At this. One I mean I will. They will prefer hacking the other because it's easier. So I guess, thankfully, I see slowly more adoption of these technologies, xdr and they are another layer, like, like minecast or filtering the email. Email is always the attack vector preferred by my hackers. So this is changing. Thankfully, this is changing.
27:41 - Kristin (Host)
Yeah, and I think it's because the public is kind of becoming more aware of it. Also, you know, obviously the generations that have grown up with the internet are becoming adults now and they're the ones that understand they have to keep their data safe. They're very big on privacy, things like that, and you're right. Even if they can't do two factor, just the SMS itself is better than nothing. And you're right, the hackers aren't necessarily going to bother with them. But I would like to say that the food industry in general is low hanging fruit now. I mean, it's very easy for them to infiltrate because it hasn't caught up with the rest of the other industries like finance or health care or some of the other critical infrastructures like oil and gas and automotive. I'm not saying it's completely broken, but I'm saying that it's slow to adopt. In that regard, security is always an afterthought in some ways. It sometimes gets brought to the table last as well, and they've already done the upgrade and you're like wait what?
28:32
What am I working on now? What is?
28:33
this and it's frustrating. And the whole the training aspect is such an interesting thing because it's not just the end user that needs the training, it's, it's us, you know, as professionals I'm I'm a big advocate for role specific, sector specific training. How can you protect something if you don't understand it? How can the sock determine if something's an incident, if they don't understand the industry that they're serving? Do they even know their company is a food production company? Do they even know it has farms? Do they know it's what they do?
29:05
And I think if you stay so siloed in your own role I'm only cybersecurity, this is only what I do and you forget that you're working for an organization that makes things that people ingest, it becomes a different conversation when you start to realize that, oh, I impact this, I actually make a difference with food for the world and the food supply chain as a whole, and it starts to actually draw this beautiful connection with those around us. I I really feel very privileged to work in this space. I don't think there's anything else like it, truthfully, unless you're probably in civil service or something to that effect, because you're saving lives as well. I have a long line of firefighters, Nelson, so it's probably just in my blood and I can't get it out. I do think that that training part is going to be super important moving forward. So how can you train the end users if you don't know either? You know one of those kind of moments and everything interacts with everything. You know. You're coming in from just I don't know slaughtering a pig, and then you want to walk through a whole entire building. You're going to want to clean off first, right, like that doesn't make any sense. Or if you're going to, you know, not wash your hands, that's also a big problem, like we all know how that goes. I think there's these little factors in there, and I give a lot of credit to the people who do. You know food protection and work on quality and sanitation, because these they're right on the front lines. They're really going through it and technology is going to be a tool in their arsenal to keep people safe. And and for you, Nelson, in your company, you're also a shield and a sword for that as well. You know you're not only safeguarding and protecting the tech, but you're also encouraging to make sure that people are armed so they can attack when something happens as well. So it's that whole people are your best asset or your worst.
30:45
I've now started saying quite often that everyone who steps into a food company or food organization is a risk. I do not care what your role is, you are a risk. You are carrying a lot of risk when you step in and if you don't acknowledge that or you are, I think you're above it. You're the bigger risk. You are the 100 percent person I wouldn't want anywhere near my facility because, again, it's not comical when something happens. It's not funny because it's going to affect people on like a very personal level, whether it's health or a job or safety.
31:18
Any of that goes because you know this as well as I do, Nelson that if something happens let's say like a cyber tech hit a company and we'll say it's an agricultural company they get shut down. They can't move, their ERP is dead, they can't get trucks in or out, they can't pay people because the system was hit there too. So what do they do? What's the first thing they do? They send people home. They send the hourly workers home. Those people are not making any money. So now you have angry people on top of a bad situation. So insider threat will increase or it would stay in their mindset even when the company bounced back, and they'll be disgruntled for a while Cause maybe they didn't get their bonus, because they couldn't pay the bonus, cause they had to pay a ransom.
31:56
I think it's one of those unique industries that is so emotionally driven for so many different reasons that it makes people kind of cringy a little bit to step into it, and I don't want to. I don't want people to not want to be here with us, cause it's really a good time. There's amazing things you get to learn about, like 3D printing salmon from pea protein, which is crazy, and that kind of stuff is happening in real time in front of us, and that's something I would like to make sure the vegans can continue to eat their pea protein salmon and anyone else who wants to eat an apple that isn't sprayed with a million tons of pesticide. You know that kind of thing Moving forward, Nelson, from your personal experience. What would you ask the industry if you could ask them anything? The IT and cybersecurity industry. And then the second part of that question is what would you ask the food industry and the agriculture industry?
32:47 - Nelson (Guest)
The first question I will make is do you know you are? As you said? You are a risk because some people they are on the lower levels If they don't understand, they are part of the change, because everything becomes like a domino effect. So it's very important to the people that know where they are and what they are, even if they think, okay, I'm doing these low salary and this guy is doing this, or my job is not important because I just I don't know I'm doing the cleaning. If they forget that, the whole company or the whole change gets affected.
33:20
And if you get affected, you mess with continuity and that's very bad for the business Because if the people, as you said, the people on the field, that they didn't work because, I don't know, there was rain or there was a fire or something bad, they don't go to work, they go to home. The salespeople don't have anything to sell, the IT don't have users to help. So it's like the domino effect and some people they don't see it, they don't think they are important and they are. The question would be like that. I mean, do you know how important you are? Because you are, even if you are not IT, even if you are on the lower level. If everyone knows how valuable they are, then the chips move on the same direction and everything goes just smoothly.
33:59 - Kristin (Host)
That's right. It drives collaboration and that's what we really need more of. I don't know why it's not like that as well as it should be. You're right, though. Everybody's important. It's 100% a team environment, and these silos and this lack of communication between different places is just ridiculous.
34:15
It doesn't keep anybody safe, it doesn't stop the hacks, but if everybody starts to work towards the same type of goals of employee safety, production, uptime, safe, healthy food that marching mantra is. It binds us as people Because we have to eat. We can't not eat. It's something we have to do as humans, and also I should extend to the food industry, or also just cover animals feed for animals. Would you like your cat and dog to continue eating as well? I mean, that's kind of like how I think too, I would like my cat to continue eating. I think the thing that's hard to Nelson sometimes. I know that sometimes our roles feel very isolating because there's not a lot of us, so there's not a lot of people to talk to you about this the specific challenges that we have in the industry. Will you share how you've overcome that and how you are finding community within the IT and cybersecurity fields, within food and agriculture?
35:05 - Nelson (Guest)
Yes, I found like joining a community really helps because you just not learn from them. I mean, linkedin is a great place, slack channels or Discord. They have these communities with people that they do the same as you. They have the similar problems you have they. Maybe they had the same experience you had, good or bad. So with these people you are able to share. And sometimes you have a problem you have no idea how to approach and you ask and these are all professionals of your industry and someone says, okay, I don't this, look for the solution or try this. And that gives you perspective. And not for only that. Because you share common goals or common things, you become friends with them and you start hanging out. Okay, let's hang out. I don't know, let's go lunch. Food is everywhere, right.
35:54 - Kristin (Host)
Food is like yeah, food is everywhere. Food is life. Yeah, exactly.
35:58 - Nelson (Guest)
So you create a bond in there and, okay, let's go. I don't know if you like video games, okay, let's get together to play video games or do this, and that helps you to get out of the stress and create bonds in your format community. For me, that's what really helped. I mean having discussion with other people that understand the issues I have, the problems I have, and in the past it was difficult because you were isolated to the people around you. Right now, with all these communities, you can find people in Africa that I don't know. If you start chatting with them and you find like you have more in common and you think, and this has different culture, and you are interested. And you find like they love tacos or they never try a taco in the past, and you're, oh, I never tried this. And you start bonding with that and it's great, it's a beautiful thing.
36:45 - Kristin (Host)
It's cause. Food binds us together, as you know, a species. If you will, I think you can go anywhere and talk about tacos. Most people know what they are so and they're great and we all love them. I don't think I've ever heard anybody say they don't like tacos. That's so true. It is the first thing you talk about. Either you're sharing a meal and you're getting to know someone, or a coffee or something to that effect Getting to know someone. It's pacified with food to make it easier for states or food. You know Everything has something to do with food.
37:14
I think we forget sometimes that we can use that to our advantage because we work in food. You know we're there with it. We have interesting stories to tell about it. I think that that's great. I love that example, like you're making me just so happy, Nelson, because I really do feel connected to this industry and to the people working it. Because of just those little things, it's great. As we're getting close to wrapping up here, I want to hear about your favorite day you had working in the company that you're working at right now as an agricultural company, as a director of IT. You don't have to be specific. I just want to hear, because I think everybody's got like their win moment and I want to hear what yours was.
37:51 - Nelson (Guest)
Well, I think the pandemic show was a lot.
37:54
Fortunately for me, I was prepared to have everything to work remotely and, most important, before this came like the big thing, I was installing this conference room, these Zoom rooms and I had everything set up for at least for the biggest offices in the company Five and suddenly, because some people they didn't use it in the past or they didn't want to use Zoom, they prefer the regular phone call or the visit because salespeople or the manager, they are old school and they like to go in person and visit and the phone call, and I had this project and they didn't have like, they didn't pay much attention to that.
38:30
And we did investment and I created this beautiful one touch bottom Zoom rooms to make it everything very easy and they didn't see the benefit. But the pandemic came and suddenly this Zoom project I got was very, very popular. The owners of the company actually congratulated me like perfect timing and I said, okay, this you know what? This is not AI, but it helps to see the tendencies, because I saw this was becoming a big thing. I wanted to participate and for me that was the big moment because I was able to make everyone to work remotely. I was able to make everyone stay together, communicate, so the business could follow working.
39:07 - Kristin (Host)
I think that that is something that's really unique and special about IT and cybersecurity More so in food, I think, on that set of house than other places. But I will say in general, I think we have the ability to be adaptive. We're adapters. We can take our high aptitudes for things and quickly have to change on a dime to be able to complete a task or have enough foresight to be able to do something ahead of time, like you did. This probably should be done. We're probably gonna need this someday. And lo and behold, we did, unfortunately, right. We didn't want the pandemic, nobody did. Yeah, unfortunately, but yeah, but the fact that you thought of that and that's such a victory. I love that. Thanks for sharing it. Okay, so we're gonna close up, but before we go, I was wondering if you had any key messages or insights you'd like to give to the audience. I do have a mix of people that listen and it's fabulous, but Mike is yours, Nelson.
39:57 - Nelson (Guest)
Thank you very much again. I really appreciate the invitation. I thank you because you are giving us a voice for the IT people and the people that work in the food safety industry and the whole food industry, and this is not very common. So I wish you good luck with this project. I'm sure you will grow up. You will have a lot of followers. Your channel will go crazy over that. I wish you very, very good luck and I would like to share with other people like yes, I mean, this is changing time and we will see AI even under the table, but that's the tendency.
40:27
Garner says in 2030, everything's over. Also, what you use will have some AI component, because that's the tendency and some people they still don't embrace it because they are afraid, because they don't see the future clear, and it's not their fault. Maybe it's some fault because of the marketing issue, because right now we are not prepared. We are not ready there, and every product you have, it says to have some AI. If it doesn't say AI, you think it's not a good product. Or if this article doesn't mention AI at least once, it's not a good article. And I know we are not ready there. That's marketing to me. Do you remember when the word artisan became a big thing and everything was artisan?
41:11 - Kristin (Host)
Yeah, artisan bread, artisan grain or what was the other one, ancient grains, was a big one for a minute too.
41:18 - Nelson (Guest)
If it didn't have artisan, it didn't sell. I was driving and I saw this board that says artisan car wash and I pulled over and I wanted to know more and I went there. At the end it was a guy with a bucket, but it was a car wash, handmade, so it was artisan. So that's what it is artisan. You earned it. I mean that's a good marketing gimmick. Wow, Because it made you think it was a real car wash all automatically. No, it was a guy with a bucket.
41:47 - Kristin (Host)
Marketing is amazing. I give them a lot of credit too, and obviously on both sides of that spectrum of good and bad. But wow, that's incredible.
41:58 - Nelson (Guest)
Oh, coming back, sorry I drift a little. Coming back, yes, we need to embrace AI because it came to a stage here. It has a lot of benefits if you use them properly. There are some projects that they are not good for AI right now because training at LLM is expensive, it requires a lot of power, a lot of energy, a lot of water. So there are some projects that they are still not ready for AI. But if you can embrace it, learn it, it will make your business better. So you can start little by little. Don't be afraid it won't take your job. It's not the new sky net, so it's safe. So again, embrace it, because it came to a stage and we all need to learn it. We all need to use the same space as AI. We need to learn how to live with it.
42:46 - Kristin (Host)
Yeah, and I also think we need to not look at it as a silver bullet either. The be all, end all, fix everything. Awesome. It is not that. It is still a man made, human made. It is still have to be programmed by humans. And what did we talk about at the beginning of this? That humans are risks and that we are, we're inhately flawed and we need to be careful. So this is why not only are we adapting AI for the future for farms because, like I said, it's going to, it is happening. It's happening, actually faster than we expected, but it's happening.
43:17
We really need to put the right training, as you said, Nelson, and the right type of technology around it to secure it. Otherwise, here's a tack factor high hacker, come on in. We have a doormat that says welcome. I think we need to be really careful about that. And also we need to make sure that you know IT, is trained in it, as well as cybersecurity, because we can't protect something If we don't understand.
43:38
That happens quite often, or I have no idea what this is, and you have to learn it and then you'll be able to protect it in a different capacity that factors in the risk considerations around it to mitigate properly rather than just, oh yeah, okay, it's a server, I need to obviously put a firewall in here and I don't know something else. You actually can learn how to do it properly if you know what it is, and especially in the food industry, because there's so many different types of equipment. I mean, Nelson, I know you've seen like all kinds of different types of tractors and different harvesters, and but the fact that those are eventually going to be completely autonomous is incredible to me. That there will be machines that are specifically created with AI intelligence to harvest lettuce and only lettuce.
44:16
That's, that's amazing. Could you imagine telling that to our like great grandparents? They look at us like we were insane. And now here we are with this tech, basically right here, but we have to make sure that it's safe. It's the same with everybody wants the electric car right. Going back to conversation about cars, well, you know, and they've all said, oh no, this is unhackable. This is unhackable. Stop saying that, because it's like challenge accepted to anybody who wants to try. And we don't want people to sit on the sides of the roads and various rural areas trying to hack into tractors because they're bored or they want to say they can do it, or maybe they are trying to cause a problem. It's not. I just don't understand. I will never understand why people do things like that. Anyways, thanks so much again, Nelson, for your time. I really appreciate it and I hope you have a lovely evening and I'm sure there will be your guest of honor. Coca-cola will be on the table. Don't forget that, because you need your family member.
45:12 - Nelson (Guest)
Thank you. Thank you for that and thanks everyone for listening.
45:18 - Kristin (Host)
Thank you for joining us on today's episode. I hope you found inspiration and a discussion about the transformative power of AI and agriculture and the personal connections that make technology meaningful. Again, a big thank you to our guest, Nelson. Remember, whether bites in the computer or bites on your plate, it's all about bringing people together. I'm your host, Kristin Demoranville, and it's been a pleasure to be with you today. Stay safe, stay curious and we'll see you on the next episode. Bye for now.
