Ep. 037 - The Recovering Farmer: Gerry Friesen on Farming and Mental Health
“The Recovering Farmer”
In this episode of the Bites and Bytes Podcast, host Kristin Demoranville sits down with Gerry Friesen, also known as The Recovering Farmer. Gerry grew up on a grain and poultry farm in Manitoba, Canada, later running a hog operation with his brother, before transitioning into mediation and mental health advocacy. His personal journey through financial challenges, anxiety, and depression led him to co-found the Manitoba Farmer Wellness Program and write his book, The Recovering Farmer.
Together, Kristin and Gerry explore the unique mental health struggles in agriculture, from the isolation of farm work to the pressures of identity, technology, and resilience. They talk about the weight of decision-making, the stigma around seeking help, and why community is essential for farmers and those supporting our food systems.
This candid and heartfelt conversation is a must-listen for anyone in agriculture, food production, or critical infrastructure, along with anyone who wants to better understand the human side of farming. Gerry’s honesty and wisdom remind us that it’s okay not to be okay, and that talking openly can be the first step toward healing.
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Connect with Gerry Friesen — The Recovering Farmer
Website: gerryfriesen.ca
Book: “The Recovering Farmer” — available through his website and major retailers
Manitoba Farmer Wellness Program: manitobafarmerwelnness.ca
Instagram @gerryfriesen
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Episode Key Highlights
00:03:05 – Gerry’s diagnosis of anxiety and depression while farming
00:05:09 – Why he calls himself The Recovering Farmer
00:09:08 – The “robot in the silo” story and how tech misses the real problem
00:11:23 – The identity crisis farmers face when leaving the land
00:13:26 – Shame, stigma, and the surprising parallels with cybersecurity
00:17:23 – Why ag-specific counseling and wellness programs matter
00:22:24 – Coping strategies farmers can use in the moment
00:27:37 – GPS tractors, beeping alarms, and the stress of tech in farming
00:30:08 – Stress, decision-making, and resilience
00:35:29 – The message Gerry wants every farmer to hear: “It’s okay not to be okay.”
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Listen to full episode :
Episode Guide:
00:00:15 – Intro: Why mental health in farming matters
00:01:06 – Gerry’s favorite food and food memory
00:02:15 – Gerry’s farming background and decision to leave farming
00:03:05 – Living with anxiety, depression, and starting The Recovering Farmer
00:05:09 – Why the title “Recovering Farmer” and the meaning of recovery
00:07:14 – Writing the book: memoir, stories, and self-help
00:08:05 – Sitting at kitchen tables with farmers in financial stress
00:09:08 – The “robot in the silo” story: tech solutions that miss the problem
00:10:40 – The importance of empathy and connection in agriculture
00:11:23 – Farming identity and parallels with other professions
00:12:53 – Community as the foundation of resilience
00:13:26 – Shame in farming, mental health, and cyberattack parallels
00:15:05 – Mid-break: thanking listeners and book updates
00:15:30 – Talking openly about shame and how stories create healing
00:17:23 – Manitoba Farmer Wellness Program and ag-aware counseling
00:18:10 – Bad therapy experiences and why persistence matters
00:19:24 – Don’t give up: keep seeking help until it works
00:20:02 – Therapy as a tool, not a weakness
00:22:24 – Coping strategies: music, exercise, connection
00:24:20 – Human connection, oxytocin, and resilience stories
00:26:05 – Farming stress: isolation, decision-making, and uncertainty
00:27:37 – Tech pressures: GPS tractors, beeping, and frustration
00:30:08 – Decision overload: more crops, more choices, more stress
00:31:37 – Stress impacts on farm decision-making and profitability
00:33:05 – Resilience in farming and cybersecurity parallels
00:34:16 – The burden of unnecessary or harmful technology
00:35:29 – The message: it’s okay not to be okay
00:36:29 – Freedom and authenticity in talking openly
00:37:28 – Closing reflections: community, kindness, and thanking farmers
00:38:11 – Outro: gratitude, book reminder, and closing message
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00:00:15 Kristin Demoranville
Welcome back to the bites and Bites podcast. I am your host, Kristin Demoranville. Today we're talking about something that doesn't get enough attention in agriculture.
00:00:19
No.
00:00:23 Kristin Demoranville
Mental health farming is stressful work and the weight farmers carry often goes unseen. Add to that the growing pressure of technology and endless decisions, and the toll could be heavy. My guest today is Gerry Friesen, also known as the recovering Farmer. Gerry has lived this story himself and now he helps others through his work.
00:00:43 Kristin Demoranville
And Farmer Wellness and conflict resolution, his honesty and experience brings much needed perspective to this conversation. Let's jump right in.
00:00:52 Kristin Demoranville
Well, I'm absolutely thrilled and I know I say this for every guest, but I really do mean it every time I say it. But before we go into the directions and all the fun things, we're going to jump right into one of my favorite aspects of the show, which is favorite food and favorite food memory. Gerry, they do.
00:01:06 Gerry Freisen
Not need to get the same thing. What are they? That's interesting. You should ask that, because I'm going to just jump right in and say, well, I'm a man and I.
00:01:12 Gerry Freisen
And so there are certain men in that cuisines that I still love and my favorite one is is egg noodles, which we call Teaopia and German, of course.
00:01:20 Gerry Freisen
With schmon fog, which is a cream gravy, and in the summer time when our Saskatoon berries are fresh, I like to throw a pile of those on there. And that is my absolute favorite dish. My gallstones didn't appreciate those at all. But hey, I loved.
00:01:34 Gerry Freisen
It.
00:01:34 Kristin Demoranville
That's amazing. And do you have a favorite food memory?
00:01:36 Kristin Demoranville
Is it well?
00:01:37 Gerry Freisen
Is that you know what? I I go down this road and and my mother used to make these Saskatoon, Veronica or Perogies and my cousin and I had a contest one day to see who could eat more than I keep thinking back to that. But yeah, that was gluttonous to say the least.
00:01:54 Kristin Demoranville
Yes, yes, any particular.
00:01:56 Kristin Demoranville
Type of what? Were they? The potato and like onion?
00:02:00 Gerry Freisen
They.
00:02:00 Gerry Freisen
Or the Saskatoon berries, just the fruit.
00:02:03 Kristin Demoranville
Just the berries.
00:02:05 Kristin Demoranville
Goodness, that's really tough on the stomach then if?
00:02:07 Kristin Demoranville
You have too.
00:02:08 Kristin Demoranville
Many.
00:02:09 Kristin Demoranville
What a memory.
00:02:10 Kristin Demoranville
But thank you. That's great. And you're the first to mention anything to do with.
00:02:13 Kristin Demoranville
That type of cuisine, so that's amazing.
00:02:15 Kristin Demoranville
Gerry, why don't you go ahead and?
00:02:16 Kristin Demoranville
Introduce yourself to the listeners.
00:02:18 Gerry Freisen
Alright. Well, I'm Gerry prison, as you know by now and I call myself a recovering farmer, I used to.
00:02:25 Gerry Freisen
Farm in southwestern mania.
00:02:28 Gerry Freisen
Koba, I grew up on a grain and poultry farm, and then my brother and I took over and we built a hog operation next to the Turkey operation. And we farmed. Not till I guess, when I don't want people to know this, I say that we quit farming because other interests were taking over. But the reality of it was, is that the financial.
00:02:48 Gerry Freisen
Challenges were just too great and we decided to exit while we could.
00:02:51 Kristin Demoranville
Which is a a common plight of the farmer, the modern farmer these days for sure, which we'll get.
00:02:56 Kristin Demoranville
Into.
00:02:57 Gerry Freisen
Yeah, and and part, sorry, part of that, Kristin, of course is while I was farming, I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression and.
00:03:05 Gerry Freisen
And I did some volunteer work for a crisis line in Manitoba and through that process started talking about my own journey, which I found to be very beneficial. And ultimately I ended up writing a book. And here we are.
00:03:19 Kristin Demoranville
With the same title, recovering Farmer, right? Yes, it's definitely worth a read. I've been reading it and you capture the human moments of what's going on.
00:03:26 Kristin Demoranville
And I appreciated that and I think this is something that we don't talk enough.
00:03:30 Kristin Demoranville
Especially in the technology side, we're getting better, but we're not there yet. And even on the on the, on farming and agricultural side is the mental toll it takes to do the job. Yeah. And all the different things that go along.
00:03:39 Gerry Freisen
Yes.
00:03:42 Gerry Freisen
With that, yeah, for sure. And I'm so happy to see the the conversations around that are growing. People are becoming more aware of it.
00:03:51 Gerry Freisen
There's still, of course, a stigma, but as these conversations carry on, of course, up stigma reduces, which is great.
00:03:57 Gerry Freisen
To see.
00:03:58 Kristin Demoranville
Yeah, because there's really to me, there's no shame in the conversation, right. I think that the more we can talk about things that impact our daily lives, the better we'll be as human beings and as a society. I don't think that we need to get weird about it. I I don't see any problems with it. I suffer from PTSD and trauma in my own life, and I've noticed that people get really strange. But when I mentioned why and what's happened to me in my life.
00:04:19 Kristin Demoranville
To me, it's part of me, like it's part of who I am.
00:04:22
Start.
00:04:23 Gerry Freisen
Exactly.
00:04:24 Kristin Demoranville
To deny that aspect is weird to me. Like I yeah, not acknowledging I have a.
00:04:28 Kristin Demoranville
Right foot. You know, like it's kind of 1.
00:04:30 Gerry Freisen
Of those things, I I love that analogy, and I'm somewhat significantly older than you and I grew up in a in a culture where if you were having these issues meant you weren't working hard enough, you weren't praying.
00:04:43 Gerry Freisen
Enough. Your faith wasn't strong enough, and shame on you for feeling that way. And and so it's awesome to see in my kids, for example, that next generation are much more open to talking about it, which is really heartwarming.
00:04:56 Kristin Demoranville
Yeah, and for sure. So what?
00:04:58 Kristin Demoranville
What got you to first of all, write this book and I realized this is this is kind of an origin story here for a moment. But why did you decide to call it what you called it? The title too, like so?
00:05:09 Kristin Demoranville
Two full question.
00:05:09
OK.
00:05:09 Kristin Demoranville
Write the book and.
00:05:10 Gerry Freisen
The title, the recovering farmer piece. Kristin after I quit farming, I started calling myself the recovering farmer. I still have no idea why I think.
00:05:20 Gerry Freisen
Was perhaps you know in line which we hear about recovering Alcoholics, right?
00:05:25 Gerry Freisen
So I called myself a recovering farmer and and then one day I was on a radio show and the host interviewed me as such and as soon as the show was over, my sister called me and she says, well, what does this mean? What does it mean to be a recovering farmer? I didn't have a clear answer for her, and so I actually looked into it a bit and to recover means to return to a previous.
00:05:46 Gerry Freisen
Level of health, prosperity and equanimity, and not just kind of sit right there. And so of course there's a story.
00:05:53 Gerry Freisen
There is well that you know, returning to a previous level of wells, well, I keep telling people I blew my retirement and then now my wife tells me I have to work till noon the day of my funeral. But you know what? I'm OK with that. I'm wealthy in many other ways with my kids, my grandkids, where I live, what I can do with the ability to do what.
00:06:14 Gerry Freisen
Do. Mm-hmm. So there's that. The health piece. Of course. You know what my mental health is? An ongoing journey.
00:06:21 Gerry Freisen
And will be till my life is over and so that's a continuing challenge I face and deal with. But the real big piece is the equanimity piece equanimity meaning to have a level of calmness even under stress. And I don't do well there at all and it comes out in my wife often questions this. It comes out particularly when.
00:06:41 Gerry Freisen
I'm driving and I get frustrated with other drivers, so clearly that recovering piece is an ongoing part of my journey. So somewhere along the line, shortly after I started talking publicly about my journey.
00:06:53 Gerry Freisen
Me, I was also challenged at the time I.
00:06:55 Gerry Freisen
Should write a.
00:06:56 Gerry Freisen
Blog and so I thought, OK, I do that and I found out very quickly my brain, my train of thought of in fact doesn't leave the station without me. It's good for about 600 words. And then I need to move on to something else. So how the book came about, Kristin, I'm not entirely sure. I had sometimes thought I would.
00:07:14 Gerry Freisen
Compile those blog posts into a book. But when I go back really a lot of them didn't do me any good and I'm sure it wouldn't do any reader any good. So I started afresh. It's part memoir. It's part telling stories about the farming peace and about other areas.
00:07:24
Mm-hmm.
00:07:29 Gerry Freisen
Is in my life and part of it is also somewhat of a self help book. Just some points that have worked well for me and I don't didn't write this to push my ideas down anybody else's throats. Not that I think that I have the answers, but rather this is me and this is how I deal with the issues that I have to deal with.
00:07:47 Kristin Demoranville
I think that that's brilliant and it reads like that too. So hopefully the listeners will also pick it up. It's on a very long read. It won't take you too long.
00:07:54 Gerry Freisen
No.
00:07:55 Kristin Demoranville
It's like 1000 pages. It's not that bad. Everybody relax. I think a lot of people listening are technical manual readers, so they're.
00:08:01 Kristin Demoranville
Like, Oh no.
00:08:02 Gerry Freisen
No, and it doesn't have any big.
00:08:04 Gerry Freisen
Words you know I.
00:08:05 Kristin Demoranville
I got I was really struck right from the jump of reading it too, that you were talking about sitting at the kitchen table with people who were struggling financially and you were and you said.
00:08:14 Kristin Demoranville
I've been there. I know this. And the relatability and the connectedness that you already established within the first few pages of the book where they touched me right away and I was like, see, this is, I want people to. I want to read things about people's experience. It's not some fabricated.
00:08:28 Kristin Demoranville
Experience. Don't get me wrong, love my fantasy books, but that's a lot of escapism. That's different. But this this was relatable because I've heard these stories too, and even though I'm not a farmer and even though I I sit on and the the support world of agriculture, I hear these stories. I just got off a call, hearing some really crazy things a little bit ago.
00:08:48 Kristin Demoranville
And I it took me a minute to sit down and, like, digest it for a second because there's an ad tech company that and I don't know who they are and I don't care. That created a robot that would stir grain in the silo. That's great. Why do you need?
00:09:01 Kristin Demoranville
That they needed.
00:09:01 Kristin Demoranville
It to keep the farmer out of the silo. Why would the farmer go in the silo? Not for a good reason.
00:09:06 Kristin Demoranville
And I thought to myself, why are we creating more problems and not dealing with the actual problem when this story was being told to me and it got me thinking a lot about the work that you do, Gerry, because that's real. That's that's real. That's where I'm actually kind of like, I'm speechless almost. And people who know me know that it that says a.
00:09:25 Kristin Demoranville
Lot when I go speechless.
00:09:27 Kristin Demoranville
But to to think about how we use tech to solve a problem that we really should.
00:09:32 Kristin Demoranville
He, sitting far were down and having a different, a different type of conversation, rather than just chucking. Technology is just absurd, and the fact that the reason they missed the reason entirely, that's the thing I'm I'm struggling with in terms of the technology side of the house is because we're not actually talking to the grassroots farmer. We're not having those deep conversations that we.
00:09:49 Gerry Freisen
Right.
00:09:51 Kristin Demoranville
Need to have.
00:09:52 Kristin Demoranville
And This is why I think that working inside of agriculture requires a different type of skill set, empathy, relatability, finding, ways to connect, because food is ultimately love, right, and you have to understand how to work in that world. And I'm not picking on anybody who works in critical.
00:10:09 Kristin Demoranville
And that you need to be, you know, getting the guitar out and sing Kumbaya are on fire. It's not that serious, but we also need to have a different understanding of how our food gets to our plate and the toll it takes on the people who do that because we live in a modern world where we're disassociated from our food supply, we take it for granted the privilege of taking it for.
00:10:30 Kristin Demoranville
Granted, but we forgot about all those generations that have allowed us to.
00:10:33 Kristin Demoranville
Do that and.
00:10:34 Kristin Demoranville
That's the mental health piece as well, because.
00:10:37 Kristin Demoranville
It's almost like the farming community has forgotten.
00:10:40 Gerry Freisen
And you know what? I had the privilege of, I suppose, the privilege back while I was still farming the Minister of Agriculture and our province here appointed me to the Manitoba farm Debt Mediation Board. And so I've dealt with hundreds of farm families and and so that connection you talk about being able to relate, I I sometimes.
00:11:00 Gerry Freisen
Question why did I have to?
00:11:02 Gerry Freisen
You know in my book and say I went broke, dealt with mental health and addiction issues so I could do today what I'm doing and I sometimes go well. Yeah. Did I really have to go through all of that? And yet those connections are incredibly important. And. And so when you have a farm family who's struggling, just like you talked about being able to sit with someone.
00:11:23 Gerry Freisen
Across the kitchen table, who's had similar experiences, it opens people.
00:11:28 Gerry Freisen
Pull up. It opens people up when they feel you know that empathy. They they feel that they they come to this understanding, they're not alone and so they're able to deal with their issues. But but the other piece to that is which I've found. And I've also found out now that other occupations are like this. Somewhat too is talking in my book.
00:11:48 Gerry Freisen
About the identity that farmers have that connection to the soil, that connection to the animals they're raising and how, when that identity is threatened, there's a lot at stake.
00:11:51
Mm-hmm.
00:11:59 Gerry Freisen
And it's interesting. I had an e-mail school teacher bought my book.
00:12:04 Gerry Freisen
And read it.
00:12:05 Gerry Freisen
And reached out and he's retired. And he said, you know what? School teachers go through that same identity crisis when they retire. And I suspect it goes for any other people. My wife just retired from being a medical office assistant or.
00:12:19 Gerry Freisen
That's that's what it is. And and there's that same thing. Like she gets up the following morning and it's like, who am I? What do I do? And so of course, that identity.
00:12:28 Gerry Freisen
Is very important.
00:12:29 Gerry Freisen
And to our to ourselves, to our self esteem and to our confidence.
00:12:33 Kristin Demoranville
I completely hear this and I watched my father go through that when he retired from the fire department after 45 years, even longer if you consider the Explorer post before and knowing that he was going to have to discover who he was outside of his uniform. And I think that a lot of those professions deal with that. My dad's doing fine, by the way.
00:12:53 Kristin Demoranville
If anybody wants to know, he's got himself a little job and he's got a little community around him, so he's good and I think.
00:12:58 Kristin Demoranville
That's the trick Gerry. And I think that we've we're kind of dancing around it, but it's community that ultimately is the important.
00:13:04 Gerry Freisen
Bit I love that word. You're absolutely right.
00:13:06 Kristin Demoranville
Yeah. And I think I think what's interesting is that it took, it took unfortunately, some bad times for you to get to where you are now. But the fact that you turned that around and you're sharing with others, whether it's the book or any of the application you do now and you're trying to make sure someone else doesn't go through this or at least doesn't have to go through the extremes. And I think that that's really beautiful.
00:13:26 Kristin Demoranville
My apology for that, because to me that's part of the human Expo.
00:13:29 Kristin Demoranville
Experience that we should be sharing, and we should be creating again in Community. And I say that knowing that I've seen people with their worst, especially when it comes to cyber attacks and the aftermath, the shame, the devastation tears, you know, and I think someone runs recently was explained to me what it was like to lose an animal that they're raising and and I know that this is is different. It's not just like losing a household.
00:13:50 Kristin Demoranville
That you know, that's different, but the fact that farmers understand that if livestock gets sick, that's understandable. They would pass if there was a complication with the environment around them. That's understandable. If and another animal got them, that's understandable.
00:14:04 Kristin Demoranville
But to have something like a cyber attack hit the farm and that caused loss of life, that's that's they just know. How did you get your head wrapped around that. And I I think people don't understand that because they think that people like you said just raise animals for slaughter and that's it. You know that's no big deal and they just are.
00:14:21 Kristin Demoranville
Callous and they.
00:14:21 Kristin Demoranville
Get through it. No, they generally care about their animals.
00:14:24 Kristin Demoranville
Very deeply, very deeply. The way region that they live in and they raise those animals.
00:14:24 Gerry Freisen
Absolutely.
00:14:29 Kristin Demoranville
Also, as part of their identity as well, if you had to remove someone not only from their occupation, but where they lived, that would be extremely difficult. Like you said, it's sometimes it's easier to sell the farm that it is to continue the farm, and this displaces people against my identity and maybe potentially where they lived. And now they have to go live somewhere else and they're not instead of.
00:14:49 Kristin Demoranville
The Prairie, they're mountain people now. And that's that's kind of another trigger for identity, which I think you did discuss a little bit of the book as well of just the displacement in general of lifestyle, yeah.
00:15:05 Kristin Demoranville
Thanks for listening to the bits and Bytes podcast you're enjoying this episode. Please like it, share it and pass it along to someone you might need to hear it. You can also check out some of my writing on sub stack and don't forget to sign up for updates on my upcoming book. You'll find the links right in the show notes. Most importantly, thank you.
00:15:21 Kristin Demoranville
For staying with us through this.
00:15:22 Kristin Demoranville
Boring conversation about our fee system and.
00:15:25 Kristin Demoranville
The people who grow the food.
00:15:26 Kristin Demoranville
That we depend on and back to the conversation.
00:15:30 Gerry Freisen
And you and you used one word there, Christine, which is, I think, a lot of people feel when they go through that challenge. And that's the word shame. And so when when this happens and we feel that shame, we shrink back and we don't deal with it effectively. And again, you know, me talking about it.
00:15:49 Gerry Freisen
And that happened almost happened by accident. I I keep saying I was manipulated into it. Which is fine, so be it. But what? What struck me was a few things. #1 is how people when they heard.
00:16:00 Gerry Freisen
My story they would come forward. They would come out of their own closet or hiding out of work to talk to me and to to share their own stories. And we would share stories and and I maintain that we learn the most by talking to each other.
00:16:14 Kristin Demoranville
I think the interesting thing about the the crossover here in this in this particular regard is I always say that cyber security is about dealing with social engineering, so manipulation of of peoples feelings around other humans that they'll always do the right thing. And the fact that we have to mitigate.
00:16:30 Kristin Demoranville
Name because when people are in shame, they tend to act up a little bit more and they might do the opposite of what they intend just to cover over the icky feeling because shame is literally the worst. And I think people who have been through counseling and therapy and other things have the tools to deal with mitigating shame a little. And like I said, cyber security is about mitigating shame and social or generic. If you were not, if you never.
00:16:50 Kristin Demoranville
Receive those tools and you're trying to help someone through a crisis. You may not do it as well as you should, meaning you might not be as apathetic, or you might be a little more callous.
00:17:00 Kristin Demoranville
And you need.
00:17:00 Kristin Demoranville
To be a little bit more difficult, I guess it's all say and I think that the the agricultural side of the House in terms of a critical infrastructure.
00:17:08 Kristin Demoranville
Needs a carrying hand and uh and leadership. That's more catering to the community rather than fighting the community. We don't need more solutions that aren't tied to the problem. We need people that are actually going to deal with the problems.
00:17:17
Yeah.
00:17:23 Gerry Freisen
That are out there and not understanding. And again I'm part of what's called the Manitoba Farmer Wellness program.
00:17:29 Gerry Freisen
Which offers.
00:17:30 Gerry Freisen
Support to our agricultural, to our farmers, their families and farm employees, and and one of the things that was key when we retained the counselors therapist that we use is that they would have an understanding of agriculture because of the the stressors of farmers phase are somewhat unique. And so I even.
00:17:50 Gerry Freisen
And I find it interesting that at one point in my life where I didn't want to go back on medication, I thought, well, talk therapy would work for me and I went to see a psychologist and and it was towards the end of our farming career and finances weren't good. And I just wanted out and he got stuck on why.
00:18:10 Gerry Freisen
How I could justify selling the family farm?
00:18:13 Gerry Freisen
Well, trust me at that point that wasn't at all an issue for me anymore. For me it was. If I want to save myself, I need to move on. And now it's fine. But at the end of that appointment, instead of going. Yeah, OK. I can help you. And he says, you know what? You can't afford me. You better go back on medication. Well, to have that kind of response.
00:18:34 Gerry Freisen
From someone who's supposed to help you was everything but helpful.
00:18:37 Kristin Demoranville
I'm so sorry that happened and I I think that's ridiculous because I don't think.
00:18:42 Kristin Demoranville
That medications to be all end all. I just don't think you need to have talk, you know, talk therapy and communication and share because you can't just internalize everything. That's not the human experience where we can talk, we can remote. We're supposed to share. That's what we do and also how isolating for that conversation and as a farmer, isolation.
00:19:02 Kristin Demoranville
It's kind of, you know, part of.
00:19:04 Kristin Demoranville
Game. So he isolated you even more. That's that's ridiculous.
00:19:08 Gerry Freisen
Well, I left that appointment just thinking. Well, I'm a hopeless case. There is no hope for me. There's nothing I can do. And so again. Yeah, but that happens. And I've had countless counselors and therapists and family doctors and what have you over the years and.
00:19:24 Gerry Freisen
And that's why I always challenge people. That's the first appointment doesn't work. Don't give up, please. Whatever you do, go get a second, third or even fourth opinion.
00:19:33 Gerry Freisen
And it's no different than her physical health. Kristin. And you drew that comparison before, and I so much appreciate that, because when when there's something wrong with me physically, I go see a doctor. And if I don't get satisfaction from that first appointment, guess what? I'm going to go back and talk to that doctor again, or I'm going to go see somebody else. But I need answers.
00:19:53 Gerry Freisen
Because I hurt or something doesn't feel right and I need to.
00:19:56 Gerry Freisen
Get it fixed.
00:19:57 Kristin Demoranville
That's right. And I think we if we looked at mental health that way, maybe that we would.
00:20:02 Kristin Demoranville
We'll do a little bit better for sure. I always tell people because there's a lot of stigma around going to therapy. There's, I always tell people don't think about it as I'm having to go to therapy. I'm. I've failed. I'm thus need therapy. You know, really, you're going to therapy to get tools to be able to manage your life. It's like using a I know that's the worst.
00:20:22 Kristin Demoranville
The comparison really, but.
00:20:23 Kristin Demoranville
It's it's just.
00:20:24 Kristin Demoranville
A tool it's like picking up a shovel or a hammer. You're learning how to use.
00:20:29 Kristin Demoranville
Tool. That's what Darby is. And I think more people realize that they probably be less judgmental of it and maybe more open to it. Yeah, it is weird talking to another human being about everything about what's going on in your brain. That is a little strange because it's your thought process and you're trying to articulate what it means to someone else to interpret. That is a little strange.
00:20:30 Gerry Freisen
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:20:50 Kristin Demoranville
God, it feels good. It feels always feels good.
00:20:51
Ohh.
00:20:52 Gerry Freisen
And guess what? Sorry, Chris and not. And you've got me going down this road now. Guess what happens when we verbalize what's going on up here is and I've done this countless times and.
00:21:02 Gerry Freisen
And I start spewing out all these thoughts I have and all of a sudden I realize, well, at least half of what what I was thinking was a bunch of crap. It wasn't real. It was perceived. And so yeah, you verbalize it, you get rid of a lot of that stuff and suddenly you feel lighter and then you cannot even talk about those things that are important to talk about.
00:21:22 Kristin Demoranville
Yeah, it's it's always interesting because when people are in the middle of a fight and you know, you're yelling back and forth, that's just the energy, the frustration coming out. Do you have to wait to get to the heart of the matter where that's 10 minutes, 15?
00:21:33 Kristin Demoranville
That's wherever and once you get to the heart of the matter, that's when that's when the healing and the conversation can start. Sure. And therapy is the same way. Sometimes you just blah blah, blah blah, blah. And then all of a sudden, boom, you're there and you have the this realization of I'm not crazy. This is actually have a real reason to feel this way. Let's deal with it. And and I love what you said before Gerry.
00:21:52 Kristin Demoranville
That it's a life journey for you.
00:21:53 Kristin Demoranville
This is not one and done. You can't just go to therapy and be like I'm healed. I mean, if you can do that, great. Like.
00:22:00 Kristin Demoranville
For you, but I think it's a life journey. And I for me, just check it up to the excitement of being alive. You know, it's just part of my journey. This is just what it is. And I think if more people embraced it with a positive attitude and could move through it, I think that would be great. Swinging it back to the agricultural side, though, probably don't have a lot of time to go to therapy. And there's a lot of.
00:22:20 Kristin Demoranville
Things that are questionable in their isolation is there.
00:22:24 Kristin Demoranville
What? What have?
00:22:24 Kristin Demoranville
Assigned and when you're in counseling and and have been counseling others to get them to start managing it in the moment in the field, if you will in the tractor by themselves like or if they're in the moment where they're questioning if they want to be alive any longer. What are the steps? Do you give them?
00:22:39 Gerry Freisen
Like the top five, maybe. Well and again Chris and everybody is different and so sure.
00:22:45 Gerry Freisen
Things work for some people. Don't you know what? When I started out with with going to therapist, for example, or really even before that when I was working with this agricultural crisis line is that they would even.
00:22:58 Gerry Freisen
My colleagues there would talk about mindfulness, you know, or or sitting and doing a body inventory and and yoga and what.
00:23:06 Gerry Freisen
Grounding. Yeah, none of that worked for any Chris, and I didn't have the patience. And so I would sit down and go, OK, umm. And then boom, all of.
00:23:15 Gerry Freisen
These.
00:23:15 Gerry Freisen
Horrible thoughts are stinking thinking. I call. It would start coming out again, right? And so, so through the years I've learned that. Number one, I think this is fairly universal is I used to spend a lot of time.
00:23:28 Gerry Freisen
On the road and off and I drive for hours on end and also and realized my radio wasn't even on. I wasn't listening to music so soon as I switched on.
00:23:36 Gerry Freisen
Some music and was listening to music that that had a calming effect and got me back into the present. I know for myself now exercise is important for a few different reasons. That number one physically, of course, #2 mentally I I've learned that there are certain things, particularly in the winter time, that I need to do when the days are shorter.
00:23:56 Gerry Freisen
The weather is cold. You don't go outside.
00:23:57 Gerry Freisen
Not as much in the summer time I'm an Abbott golfer and of course, talking to a farming community. Tell them that I go golfing almost everyday. Doesn't work. But but there are things that we can do and and. But then first and foremost again is make sure you talk to people. Yes, we spend hours on end alone in a tractor in the combine.
00:24:18 Gerry Freisen
In a barn, whatever the case may be.
00:24:20 Gerry Freisen
And so that's human connection is so incredibly important. And in fact, we have a chemical in our brain called oxytocin, which gets released when we chat with people, shake someone's hand and just make eye contact. And here's a personal story again, which is in the book 20 years ago, I actually watched my brother go ask over tea kettle on his motorbike.
00:24:41 Gerry Freisen
And which wasn't that pleasant, but then second to that was that while he was laying in a coma in the hospital, I had more work fall on me because I was farming together with.
00:24:52 Gerry Freisen
And yeah, and so a couple of days after that happened, I showed up at the hog barn and my neighbor showed up, and I suspect he could probably tell I wasn't in a good place. And so he said, how are you doing? And you know how we normally respond. It doesn't matter how we're doing and say I'm fine another day in paradise, whatever the case may be.
00:25:10 Gerry Freisen
Yes, but for some reason that morning I started doing exactly what we just talked about, verbalizing everything that was going on up here and you know, the neighbors sat there for an hour. He listened to me. He didn't provide answers, and I knew he wouldn't. He normalized and validated what I was feeling, but I was able to unload.
00:25:29 Gerry Freisen
Have that I had the encouragement to step out and seek further help. Unfortunately, that first step I took was to see that psychologist we just talked about. But hey, at least I was on the right path.
00:25:35
M.
00:25:44 Kristin Demoranville
And you didn't give up either, Gerry. That's the important part. That's the really important part. And I.
00:25:49 Kristin Demoranville
Think I think.
00:25:50 Kristin Demoranville
People don't understand just the the the mental load of what it means to farm and what we meant by isolation is, like I said, there's a lot of alone time. You don't have community, there's a lot, a lot of jobs these days that require you to be alone. A lot of it is in an office or you're around.
00:26:05 Kristin Demoranville
People are you visiting customers or?
00:26:06 Kristin Demoranville
Clients or there's a community you go to a coffee shop. There's things like that, but you're in the middle of a farm. There's nothing around. Yeah, you've seen some beautiful sites like nature and and the weather and all these great things. But it doesn't fill you with any type of joy that you really need as a human being as we are. We need connection with other humans. It's it's our wiring.
00:26:07 Kristin Demoranville
Yeah, there.
00:26:25
Upsetting.
00:26:26 Gerry Freisen
It's a little.
00:26:26 Kristin Demoranville
Wiring.
00:26:27 Gerry Freisen
And all that a long time just gives us more time to think, right. If I'm in a tractor, putting in a crop in spring, I'm looking at all that money. I'm investing in growing a crop. I have no idea what Mother Nature will do. I have no idea what government policy will do. I have no idea what kind of trade actions there's going to be. And I have no idea what I'm going.
00:26:45 Gerry Freisen
To be getting for that product.
00:26:46 Gerry Freisen
When I finally take it off the field and fall, and so it gives us far too much time to think.
00:26:52 Kristin Demoranville
Yeah. Or if you're going to have the equipment to get it off the field or if you're going to have the right windows.
00:26:57 Kristin Demoranville
Are you going to have is? Are you gonna break even? Are you going to be short? Like, what's going to happen? There is so much stress in farming. And I I it's I've so much respect for it. And this is where it drives me mad that people don't even know what they're eating anymore because they don't know what went into that meal. Whatever it is. And it's it's hard for me.
00:27:17 Kristin Demoranville
To to not be so grateful and thankful, and This is why I always tell people to think a farmer I know, like, you know, is there anything we can do to help you out? Kristin? And I always say go thank a farmer. I don't care if it's the person on the street or you call somebody or you just put it on your social media like a farmer because that's it doesn't matter what type of farmer or I don't care, just go bank them because it's not. It's not easy. It's not easy at all.
00:27:37 Kristin Demoranville
And I think we talked a little bit about this in our pre meeting, but with all the introduction of technology now has become even more of a mental.
00:27:46 Kristin Demoranville
Because the median age of a farmer is slipping around 63, I believe I could be wrong about that number, but I think I'm pretty close and to put them into a or force them or have no choice because you can't buy anything else. Now, a tech GPS tracker that sure concept wise, it's pretty cool, right? It will line you up. It will drive for you.
00:28:06 Kristin Demoranville
Great. But to have someone who's not a tech savvy individual all of a sudden a truck with all these blinking lights and alarms?
00:28:12 Kristin Demoranville
Going off and they can't shut it off or they can't slow down or all these other things is even more stressful than just using the original tractor or not having these things. And I I'm worried about the resilience of farming moving forward, especially since we need more fresh and farmers. And sure, some of them will be really tech savvy and happy to do it, which is great. But we still need to understand.
00:28:34 Kristin Demoranville
How to farm? Because there's a lot of tribal knowledge, a lot of legacy knowledge.
00:28:38 Kristin Demoranville
So I know what you're it's a bit like kind of the side here, but do you think that the addition of all this technology, whether it's agtech or whatever new tractors, things that come in, do you think it's adding to the mental load that's already there since we're not totally dealing with the original problem itself?
00:28:54 Gerry Freisen
And you talked.
00:28:55 Gerry Freisen
About the median age of farmers, and I think you're pretty close.
00:28:58 Gerry Freisen
What you said, and so I I'm somewhat older than the median age, but I can tell you that I have a simple laptop. I'm out in the last year, had two more laptops to my office, so I because of the work I do. So I have three laptops.
00:29:13 Gerry Freisen
Just the fact that I have to turn around and fire up another one stresses me out and then when something doesn't work right, I just it drives me nuts and so thankfully I have a son who's an IT geek. And so a quick phone call while he gets exasperated with me because he said, well, dad, what's your password?
00:29:28
OK.
00:29:33 Gerry Freisen
I said, funny thing, I don't remember well and then I get a ton of my wife should. And then he finally sorts it out for me and explains how to do it while a day or two later I have to do the same thing again and can I can I remember. No. And so I hear these stories.
00:29:51 Gerry Freisen
Normally they're kind of funny at the time because I'll I'll hear these stories about farmers my age getting into their tractor. And like you say, the beeping starts and they get all rattled and frustrated and and they're calling on the radio for someone to come help them.
00:30:05 Gerry Freisen
And so does.
00:30:06 Gerry Freisen
That add to it. Absolutely it does.
00:30:08 Gerry Freisen
I suspect the younger generation probably embrace this technology.
00:30:12 Gerry Freisen
A lot more, but even for them, even for them, because there's so much more to think about and I can't help Christian but compare farming today to what it was like when I was growing up on a grain farm for exam.
00:30:23 Kristin Demoranville
Of course.
00:30:24 Gerry Freisen
You know what? There was 1 variety of wheat and there was 1 variety of barley and and so we had a 10 foot press drill and my dad would throw the crop in the ground and there would be 1 herbicide he would use and we would actually stir it with our arms and not even use a mask, which of course you should have stood.
00:30:41 Gerry Freisen
Then you.
00:30:41 Gerry Freisen
Would take the crop off and you would deliver to the elevator and boom, you're done for the year. But now all of these decisions have to be made and there's more.
00:30:49 Gerry Freisen
And more and more.
00:30:50 Gerry Freisen
More when you add technology to the next, there's even more decisions to be made and and that becomes overwhelming. And and I have a saying I sometimes use that says you're only have one decision away from a completely different life. And when I look back a lot of where I ended up with on my phone was because of decisions I made.
00:31:10 Gerry Freisen
And of course this is where I go into shibil about the fact that all these stressors are occurring and farm management Canada here.
00:31:17 Gerry Freisen
Where in Ottawa, I actually did a study a few years ago that talked about how stress impacts our decision making and so that farmers that are rational and are able to make clear decisions are more likely to be profitable. So it's just an indication, again about how absolutely everything is linked. Yeah and.
00:31:37 Kristin Demoranville
And that completely makes sense to me. It's so, and I never thought about it. Gerry, you kind of made me think about it for a minute. That we do have so many varieties of crops now and choice and how they take to different climates in different soil and different moisture levels and pests and birds and all these other things that it's not. It's not simple anymore. It's.
00:31:56
What?
00:31:57 Kristin Demoranville
There's too much choice and some people love lots of choice. That's great, but generally speaking it's something that is something like farming. You don't want to have 15 choices for one thing, that's a.
00:32:07 Gerry Freisen
Lot. You know what I used the example of a cell phone. Christian, when I first bought my first cell phone back in the mid 90s, it was this big contraption you threw on the dashboard.
00:32:17 Gerry Freisen
On your vehicle, you had one cell phone provider in Manitoba, so do you have no choices there? You have basically one phone you can.
00:32:24 Gerry Freisen
Used and you would drive and there'd be areas that still didn't have coverage and you could just swear at someone because there wasn't coverage. Right. And then more choices came along and then then the choice I made wouldn't have reception in a certain area. And then I'd be mad that I hadn't made, so I'd be blaming myself right till that point. I could.
00:32:44 Gerry Freisen
In the world.
00:32:45 Gerry Freisen
When a dark point, suddenly these things have it. My decisions had implications on what I could and couldn't do, and then we start beating ourselves up. We're our own worst critics and and not just drives us towards the.
00:32:58 Kristin Demoranville
Abyss it does. This is where resilience is so important. With farming, right, you have to be able to overcome.
00:33:05 Kristin Demoranville
Hi.
00:33:05 Kristin Demoranville
That the the dark, thinking whatever. I don't know. You called it.
00:33:08 Kristin Demoranville
What did you call it?
00:33:09 Kristin Demoranville
You're thinking thinking, yes, you have to be able to come that and again you're trying. The reason why you do your job is you're trying to feed the world, right? If you will. I know that seems a little extreme, but you're trying to feed the world and provide, you know, nutrient based food that's good for humans or anywhere. If you're feeding animals.
00:33:25 Kristin Demoranville
Too, and you're doing a good thing. It's a good job. Like it's a good feeling you're doing.
00:33:30 Kristin Demoranville
Something for the betterment of.
00:33:31 Kristin Demoranville
Humanity. But then you're being pushed down so hard for what you do. It's kind of productive. So resilience is hard because you're not appreciated and then you beat yourself up. And this is this is very similar to some of the feelings in cybersecurity. And I'm not comparing farming. Cyber security per say, but it's it's adjacent that there's a lot of you deal with a lot of crises.
00:33:52 Kristin Demoranville
Over and.
00:33:52 Kristin Demoranville
Over again and burnout is real and we all we all struggle with mental health and it's still not a topic that's brought up enough in our industry for sure. And This is why I know I make people uncomfortable when I talk about it and even now maybe people are cringing listening. I have no idea, but I think it's an important thing to talk about because it's part of your human experience and especially in agriculture, which is.
00:34:12 Kristin Demoranville
Dueling us humans and we need to eat.
00:34:16 Kristin Demoranville
And then of course, we have all kinds of issues around eating, whether it's food security or any type of food disorders or eating disorders and things like that. We've got all this aspects, it's still around it in a different way that why don't we just fundamentally deal with the basics of the people who grow the crops or like raise the livestock, need support and we don't want to add more burdens to them, create tech that they don't need.
00:34:37 Kristin Demoranville
Or create tech that causes them more headaches in general and then on top of it, now you have a cyber issue because it's connected to the Internet and you didn't know was connected to the Internet because you just bought this tractor. Yeah, sure. It's GPS, Internet connected.
00:34:48 Kristin Demoranville
But why is that your problem? And like there's all these factors into it and then your family gets hacked and their bank account information's gone and there's all this additional stress, which doesn't need to be there. And it's so infuriating to me that we have created these systems that just hurt instead of help. And This is why, you know, the podcast.
00:35:08 Kristin Demoranville
Borns is right, you wrote your book. This is why you continue to advocate the way you do the same with me. We just want people to be better and be.
00:35:15 Kristin Demoranville
OK, be OK is probably the best be OK.
00:35:17 Gerry Freisen
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, I was just.
00:35:19 Kristin Demoranville
Want people to be?
00:35:20 Kristin Demoranville
OK for sure.
00:35:21 Gerry Freisen
And and that's why I say it. There is hope and there is relief and that's what I wanted everybody to know and that's what I want everybody to pursue.
00:35:29 Kristin Demoranville
Yeah, exactly. And also not to be afraid, you know, not to be afraid to pursue it because it is for the betterment of yourself and your family and your profession.
00:35:38 Kristin Demoranville
And we.
00:35:38 Kristin Demoranville
We we need more farmers in general to come forward and say I'm not OK, but it's OK to not be OK. And then it let's deal with it and I I say that all the time. Yeah, you're it's OK to feel the feels you.
00:35:44 Gerry Freisen
It's OK not to be OK.
00:35:49 Kristin Demoranville
Know it's not.
00:35:50 Kristin Demoranville
A problem. It's all in how what you do with.
00:35:52 Kristin Demoranville
Those feelings, it's matters and it's OK.
00:35:54 Kristin Demoranville
To reach out for help? Exactly. And I I think again as I as.
00:35:58 Kristin Demoranville
The podcast has evolved. I really want to continue to have these topics that are getting to know and understand the agricultural sector, getting to know where your food comes from.
00:36:07 Kristin Demoranville
How do we and how do we secure and protect if we don't understand it, we'll just create a little robot that stirs the silo that nobody needs. Those kind of things. And I really, I really applaud you, Gerry, for writing this book and being authentically you and putting yourself out there that way and constantly pushing to make sure people are OK, especially the agricultural community.
00:36:27 Kristin Demoranville
So thank you very much for that. I really appreciate.
00:36:29 Gerry Freisen
That I've been asked how can you have that freedom to talk about it?
00:36:33 Gerry Freisen
And I've said to people, my answer is very clear that I've found that by talking about it, I've gained more freedom and that's important to know because I'm, I'm not holding all this stuff in now and shying away from seeing people shying away from talking. Rather, I'm talking about it openly and it's made me freer.
00:36:42
In May.
00:36:54 Gerry Freisen
And so that's a message for you.
00:36:56 Gerry Freisen
Listeners out there is talking about it.
00:36:59 Kristin Demoranville
Helps. It does. And also it's interesting because I was thinking why you were saying that about the person who probably said that to you, you were making them uncomfortable with your freedom because they want that freedom too, you know. And I think that I always try to remind myself with that, like, how we how you speak out and how people receive it, how they receive it.
00:37:16 Kristin Demoranville
Is really not your problem.
00:37:17 Kristin Demoranville
But ultimately, you're trying to make sure they understand and people have their own bag of things they're dealing with as well. This conversation just really resonates all around that it's OK not to be OK. If you need help, reach.
00:37:28 Kristin Demoranville
Out community is super important. Remember to thank a farmer, for heaven's sakes. You know those kind of things need to happen. Just be a kind human being and don't add to the problem. So don't make robots that serve silos and do things that are not dealing with the actual problem, which is the mental health of the people who grow and sustain us. And thanks so much for being here, Gerry.
00:37:48 Kristin Demoranville
I love this conversation. I loved all our conversations, but I love this.
00:37:51 Gerry Freisen
One too. Yeah, well, I enjoy it. As you can tell, Christian, I can get quite passionate about it. So thank you very much for having.
00:37:57 Kristin Demoranville
Me, absolutely.
00:38:11 Kristin Demoranville
A huge thank you to Gerry for joining me today. This was such an uplifting conversation despite the heavy topic, Gerry's honesty reminds us that it's OK not to be OK, and the resilience comes from community and connection. If you are in any distress, please do reach out. Call a friend. Talk to Neymar.
00:38:30 Kristin Demoranville
You're not alone.
00:38:31 Kristin Demoranville
You'll find all of Gerry's links and show notes, and I encourage you to read his book, the Recovering from.
00:38:37 Kristin Demoranville
And as always, remember to like comment and share this episode with a friend. It makes a big difference, and I'm so glad to have you part of the bites and bites crew. Stay safe. Stay curious and we'll see you on the next one. Bye. For now.
