Ep. 032 - AI, Consumer Behavior, and the Future of Food with Andreas Duess
Why do most new food products fail, and what does AI have to do with it?
In this episode of the Bites and Bytes Podcast, you host, Kristin Demoranville, is joined by Andreas Duess, co-founder of GoCPG and CEO of 6 Seeds, to unpack what’s really driving the food and beverage industry right now.
Spoiler: it’s not just taste trends or fancy branding. It’s behavior, data, and decisions made without proper insight.
We talk about:
How AI is helping food brands try to understand real consumer behavior
The say-do gap: why people don’t buy what they say they want
How Uber Eats data, smart fridges, and strained supply chains shape product development
Why big brands are suddenly out-innovating startups
What GLP-1 drugs mean for food categories
And why rebuilding communities around food matters more than ever
Whether you’re in food, tech, or cybersecurity—or just curious about the systems behind what we eat—this episode pulls back the curtain on where the industry is headed.
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Andrea Duess’s contact information & companies:
Andrea’s LinkedIn
Personal Site
6 Seeds is the Communication and Innovation Consultancy for today’s agri-food Brands
goCPG is an AI-powered platform that helps food entrepreneurs and consumer packaged goods (CPG) brands grow by providing personalized insights, mentorship, and tools to turn their ideas into successful businesses.
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🎯 Episode Key Highlights
06:59 The Role of Data in Food Innovation
11:19 Navigating the Fragmented Consumer Market
13:58 AI’s Impact on Data Utilization
19:30 Consumer Awareness and Ethical Considerations
23:13 Supply Chain Challenges and Rising Costs
24:39 The Evolution of Food Security and Pricing
27:55 Climate Change and Its Impact on Agriculture
30:18 Community Resilience in the Face of Crisis
33:45 Building Community Through Food
38:27 AI as a Tool for Meaning and Sense-Making
42:00 The Significance of AI in Daily Life
44:00 AI as a Tool for Innovation
45:00 The Shift in Innovation Dynamics
46:10 The Importance of Embracing AI
48:32 Historical Perspectives on Technology
51:07 Optimism in the Face of Challenges
52:45 The Evolution of Food Trends
54:05 Empowerment Through AI
57:41 Advice for Food Founders
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🛡️ About AnzenSage & AnzenOT
AnzenSage is a women-owned cybersecurity advisory firm specializing in security resilience for the food, agriculture, zoo, and aquarium industries. AnzenSage offers practical, strategic guidance to help organizations anticipate risks and build resilience. Their services include:
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Key features include:
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Explore the platform at anzenot.com
For demo requests or inquiries, email stuart@anzenot.com or kristin@anzenot.com
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🎤 Book Kristin Demoranville to Speak
Looking to bring a fresh, engaging perspective on cybersecurity to your next event? Kristin Demoranville, CEO of AnzenSage, co-founder of AnzenOT, and host of the award-winning Bites and Bytes Podcast, is a dynamic speaker who bridges the gap between technology and the industries that feed, sustain, and inspire us.
With over 25 years of experience in IT and cybersecurity, Kristin has captivated audiences at prestigious conferences such as the American Zoo Association, RSA Conference, S4X24, the Food Safety Consortium, and many more. Her talks are known for their compelling storytelling, practical insights, and ability to make complex topics accessible and relevant.
Whether addressing the nuances of cybersecurity in the food industry or the broader implications for critical infrastructure, Kristin’s presentations are tailored to resonate with diverse audiences, encouraging discussion and fostering an inclusive environment.
To invite Kristin to speak at your conference, corporate event, or workshop, visit anzensage.com/speaking and submit a request.
Listen to full episode :
Episode Guide:
00:00 Welcome + Episode Intro
02:16 Andreas’ Childhood Memories and Cultural Food Identity
06:54 What Drives Andreas’ Work Today
11:19 Navigating the Fragmented Consumer Market
13:58 AI’s Impact on Data Utilization
17:43 The Say-Do Gap and Behavior-Driven Innovation
20:15 Smart Fridges, Uber Eats, and Surveillance Capitalism
23:13 Climate, Supply Chains, and the Real Cost of Food
27:12 Why Most Food Products Fail
30:55 The Role of Data in Closing the Innovation Gap
33:20 The Collapse of Community and Food Culture
36:06 What’s Actually on Your Plate—and Who Decides
39:08 Using AI as a Tool for Founders and Accessibility
42:09 Staying Human While Working with AI
44:51 Realism, Optimism, and the Printing Press Analogy
47:35 Why Challenger Brands Are Falling Behind
50:15 Advice for Food Founders and Builders
54:12 Wrapping Up and What Comes Next
57:06 Where to Find Andreas + Final Thoughts
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Kristin Demoranville (00:00)
As always, as our start, we're gonna go through favorite food and favorite food memory. So go for it.
Andreas (00:06)
Favorite food memory? You you can't see this but I'm really tall. I'm six foot six. And when I was 15, I was already six foot six and I was lanky and really skinny. And I remember going to my grandmother who I had a really close relationship with, my mom's mom.
And I complained to her as a 15 year old would, and I said, you know, I shall never have a girlfriend. I shall die lonely because I'm not cool. can't dance. I flail, but just still do. I can't, I don't play any instrument. I'm not in the band and all girls want to be with a cool guy. And once my grandmother had recovered from laughing uncontrollably about this, you know, teenage angst being thrown at her. She said to me, look, you know, I'm going to teach you how to cook a couple of dishes. And I guarantee you'll never find yourself without female company.
Kristin Demoranville (00:26)
goodness.
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (00:48)
for the rest of your life. And this was very, very, very true. I started cooking for girls I liked, and I think once they overcome the shock that this was something a boy would do for them, it's through my entire dating career, this was what I did. And when I met the girl who's now my wife, you know, there was a point where she looked at me said, I know what you're doing. Don't think I know what you're doing. I said, well, you're still here.
Kristin Demoranville (01:10)
That's funny.
Andreas (01:11)
And she stuck with me for the last 24 years, so I must have done something right. So I worked as a line cook during my university years for a couple of years. didn't make a career out of it because it's a very difficult, very hard life that's not conducive to family life. So today I still cook for the people I love and it all goes back to an angst-ridden outburst from a 15-year-old and the grandmother who listened.
Kristin Demoranville (01:35)
That's amazing. And do you have a favorite food that you've cooked or is there something that sticks out in particular?
Andreas (01:41)
You know, I lived in and I still live in very multicultural cities. I lived in London, UK for 17 years. now Toronto is home in Canada, which is probably one of the most multicultural cities on the globe. And so it's really difficult to see, do I have a favorite food when you have access to so many different cuisines, right? You know, when I lived in London, I lived in the East and for a while, very much an Indian slash Pakistani area, lots of fantastic Indian food.
Kristin Demoranville (01:53)
Absolutely.
Andreas (02:08)
Here in Toronto, we have amazing Chinese food. have a really thriving Latin American communities of fantastic Mexican food. So the answer is it's almost impossible to say, I have a favorite food because it's like this embarrassment of riches that we have access to.
Kristin Demoranville (02:23)
That's totally understandable. How about a favorite food fixation though? Because that tends to be what gets people, like they get stuck on something for a bit.
Andreas (02:31)
Yeah, I suffer from rabbit hole-itis, where I get really interested in something and then sort of dive deep into this. So a couple of years ago, I got really interested in sous vide cooking and really went down that rabbit hole for fish, for meats, for all kinds of stuff. And that was interesting. Then about a year ago, I started saying, well, how can we
Kristin Demoranville (02:48)
Mmm.
Andreas (02:59)
How can we add more vegetable based dishes to my family's rotation? So I went down there. But generally speaking, you know, I three kids and it is this constant, I don't want to call it a battle, but it's a constant balancing act between cooking stuff they'll eat and love. And at the same time imbuing them with a sense of adventure and the sense of
Kristin Demoranville (03:18)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Andreas (03:24)
You know that food is more, at least for me, food is more than fuel. Food is culture and food is love and food is a sense of belonging. We have a number of years during the year, a number of days during the year that are connected to very traditional foods that we've made a tradition in our own.
Kristin Demoranville (03:28)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (03:44)
you know, we always have venison stew on Christmas Eve and that's just a thing because that goes back to my wife's family. that that's how she grew up. And we have a, a tradition on boxing day that goes back to my days in London as a 20, 20 year old, 21 year old. And we used to have, we started something that we called it at the time, the waves and strays boxing day party.
Kristin Demoranville (03:53)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (04:10)
And it was all the people getting together who couldn't go home, you know, who lived in London, but they were from New Zealand, from Australia, Canada, the U.S., South Africa. It doesn't matter. They were from anywhere in the world. And so we had this Ersatz Christmas party for those people. And at the time, of course, you know, this were like 50 people. It started as a lunch and it ended the next day with the botchery and way too much wine and all those kinds of things. And I always took this with me.
Kristin Demoranville (04:24)
Mmm.
Andreas (04:37)
And it has calmed down an awful lot in recent years. almost, you know, almost disappeared when we have, when our kids were very young, my wife, we have twins. And so at some point we had three kids under the age of two in the house, which is not conducive to having guests on top of this. So for two or three years, it almost petered out. And now we're back to having friends around and I'll make a massive porchetta, which is like pork belly, a rolled roast pork belly.
And so I think these kind of culinary traditions for me and for my family, they're really important because again, when I look back on my own childhood and my own family, on my own relationships with my parents and my grandparents, there is always a connection with food and there is always a connection with safety and security and, you know, being in a
I was lucky enough to grow up in a stable family environment where my parents got on well and there was a sense of stability there. And we're trying to imbue that same sense of stability and love and belonging to my own children.
Kristin Demoranville (05:42)
That's amazing. Completely understand the traditions when it comes to bringing forward different cultures into Christmas and other holidays in general. My mother's side of the family is Swedish and my grandfather would have luftafish every Christmas Eve and I got a lot of rest of the soul. miss it, oddly. I do not like the smell of pickled fish, but for some reason, whenever I smell it, think of him.
But we still honor those traditions, you know, meatballs and baked macaroni and cranberry sauce, because it's hard to get, you know, lingon berries and things like that. So I completely understand that mentality of keeping traditions alive. That's it's something that you just made my heart warm up when you were talking about it, because I was like, yes, absolutely. And then I used to call it orphans Thanksgiving or orphans holidays when I had friends that were out of town that couldn't get out.
So I applaud you for doing that because that is so valuable, especially for people who are single or without family. I think that that's amazing. I've definitely been an orphan that's been taken into parties, quite memorable ones as well, as I remember. There was definitely some questionable moments that happened
You know, it was something that got me through, which I really appreciated. you know, thank you for continuing that tradition. think it's amazing. Yeah, it really is. So go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience that's listening.
Andreas (06:54)
it's great fun.
So
my name is Andreas. I am the CEO of a company called Six Seeds. We are a global consultancy that uses AI tools and data to work with food companies. The problem we solve is the average failure rate of new CPG products in market that get launched in market is around 82%. The cost to the US economy per year is around 24 billion.
Kristin Demoranville (07:22)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (07:27)
And if I can translate this into your cost, like if you're a grocery buyer, the average dollar amount taken out of your wallet every year, because somebody has to pay for all of these failed products, is in the region of $350. So that's what you're paying per year just to pay off the failure rate. And it's an estimate. You may say, well, mine is much lower or mine is much higher.
Kristin Demoranville (07:40)
Mm-hmm.
cheese.
Andreas (07:53)
So that's a problem we're solving. The reason the failure rate is so high is because the vast majority of food products to this day are being launched without adequate data and they fall, they fall foul of what we call the say do gap. And the say do gap is the difference between what people tell you that's important to them and what's really important to people is absolutely massive.
Kristin Demoranville (08:04)
Thank
Andreas (08:18)
and succeeds as a company, we set out to solve this problem through better data, more data, and then use AI to wrangle and understand this data. So that's the first thing we do. Second problem we solve, specifically in food and drink, and this is Nielsen data, roughly 70 % of all marketing campaigns cost more than they bring in, cost more than they earn. So again, that's a cost that's on the business, and that's a cost that ultimately gets carried by the consumer.
Kristin Demoranville (08:42)
Thank
Andreas (08:45)
And again, we're using data and AI to make sure that we create marketing that people actually want to interact with. And then finally, we help companies get ready for investment to put them in a position where they're actually ready for investment. So that is my main job. I'm also the co-founder of a company called GoCPG. And GoCPG is an AI-powered mentor for new food founders.
Kristin Demoranville (09:11)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (09:11)
helps
them along this journey and make sure that they understand the system they're working within. Right? I mean, a lot of the failures that we see from new businesses is because founders start their journey from first principles. And when you do this, when you learn everything from scratch, when you walk along this forest path, not knowing, not without a map, you eat a lot of poisonous berries along the way.
And some of these berries might give you a stomach ache. Some of these berries may nourish you. Some of these berries may make you throw up. And there are very few berries that will kill you. And the same thing is happening to businesses. And so the mentor, the AI-powered mentor that we give people access to says, eat this, don't eat this. Whatever you do, don't eat that one. And focus in this direction. And that alone, the goal of this is to bring more innovation to market.
Kristin Demoranville (09:56)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (10:04)
allow more people bring more innovative and emotionally relevant food products to market. So those are some of the things I do.
Kristin Demoranville (10:11)
That's amazing.
That's amazing. And I've had the privilege of knowing a few food startups. So I know the stress that comes in from all different angles, supply chain, consumer acceptance, how it's working in the market, how it's not trending in the market.
Some brands that people might understand and know like RX bars or liquid death, they changed their marketing over the years and have exploded because they actually started using data. think those companies both did. And those are two examples. So if you look at like their old branding versus their new branding, and those are difficult arenas to play in, know, protein bars and water. There's so many different types of water and there's so many different types of protein bars. So watching companies thrive in that way. And I love
love, love your description of being a founder in a forest. And I was also thinking it's also barefoot walking because you could step on something while you're going through it. As a founder myself, I definitely understand that squishy stuff, possibly something a little scary. I definitely would be tiptoeing through the forest, hopefully not eating any poisonous berries. So thank you for that official. It was quite very telling to me. So use a lot of good.
Andreas (11:05)
squishy squishy stuff
And
I one of the main, one of the big problems that we're facing as founders is that the market, the consumer market is just so fragmented these days, more fragmented than it had ever been. I mean, again, I cook for the people I love. And I remember again, like 25 years ago, whenever, I was in my 20s, late 20s.
Kristin Demoranville (11:30)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (11:41)
You had a dinner party and you cooked a thing and people came and they ate the thing and you put red wine on the table or then people drank the wine and then everybody went home and everybody was happy. And nowadays, and this is in no way intended to be a criticism of my friends, but nowadays the first answer is always, is there anything you don't eat? Do you have any special needs? Are you gluten free? Are you vegan? Are you not drinking alcohol? For example, like all of these things.
Kristin Demoranville (12:07)
Yeah.
Andreas (12:08)
And I think it's part of being a good host, at least for me, is to take this into consideration as much as possible, except there are some people you just don't invite anymore because they're too complicated. But, you know, like, and the same thing is true for if you're launching a product, right? If you're launching a food or drinks product, it's not good enough anymore to launch a cereal and expect 80 % of the market to connect with that product.
Kristin Demoranville (12:24)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (12:33)
I mean, those days are over. You need to understand the market. You need to understand your niche and you need to commit to serving that niche as much as you possibly can. And coming back to your example of Liquid Death, I think Liquid Death is one of the brands that absolutely and 100 % understands the market and focuses relentlessly and with great focus on serving that market and that market.
Kristin Demoranville (12:51)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Agreed, agreed. And it's pretty interesting watching, like I said, a water company or water beverage company come into the market when there's so many bottles of water. You know, it's the whole example of just throw yourself out there. There's tons of bottles of water brands out there and they're all doing well. Just keep going, kind of vibe happens. But they've flipped them on its head. It's an entirely different type of water company if you think about a bottled water company in general, because
They are almost cheeky about it and having a different mantra. The concept of being heavy metal in some ways is kind of ironic for water. But I just really find it really interesting and fascinating how these brands are continuing. And they would have to use data in order to do that. I mean, I'm not saying that you couldn't organically come up with these type of ideas.
But without understanding of the market, it becomes quite difficult. And now with the introduction of AI, I would really like your thoughts on that, how AI is changing the market, not only for food companies, but consumers as well. I would love to hear your thoughts.
Andreas (13:58)
So one of the things that AI does and that it's really good at, and I think this ties in nicely with something that you said earlier on, one thing that AI is really good at is that it makes large amounts of data finally useful. A couple of years ago, everybody was talking about big data and how big data is going to revolutionize business and society and absolutely everything. And it never really happened.
Kristin Demoranville (14:14)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (14:25)
There were some people in some organizations that had the resources, had the willingness, had the financial wherewithal, and had the business model to make big data useful. But in order to make big data useful, you needed data analysts, you needed mainframes, like you needed loads of computing power at the time, which at the time wasn't readily available. And so now what we have, one of the big benefits of AI is that AI is incredibly good at seeing patterns in data.
Kristin Demoranville (14:42)
Yes.
Andreas (14:50)
and pulling the information out of data. that's just, you know, one of one of, me, that is one of the main benefits. So to give you an example, in my own company, we use about a trillion data points every day. That's part of our data lake that we have access to. And we get data from a variety of partners, from a number of partners. We buy this data.
Kristin Demoranville (15:03)
a lot.
Andreas (15:11)
Part of that data in our case is retail data. So we know what people are buying at the store because we get the data from the checkout counter and it flows into our data lake. It's highly anonymized, of course, so we don't know that, know, Kristin bought a chicken, but we know, you know, sales of, I don't know, chicken thighs are going up versus sales of chicken breasts, for example.
Kristin Demoranville (15:21)
Mm.
Andreas (15:36)
Right? So we can observe the ebb and flow of those kinds of things. And then that gets added to this. have food service data. So we know what's coming from food service data. And just to give you a source for this, that source comes from food delivery companies, so from the Uber Eats of this world. So we know, and they all make their data available for a price. You can purchase that data. Something to think about the next time you're...
Kristin Demoranville (15:49)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (15:58)
You're ordering from Uber Eats, perhaps. So we have food service data. What's on menus? On those menus, what's selling? When is it selling? Who's buying it? What time of day are they buying it? Where do they live when they purchase it? So all of this data flows in. And then we have other data. We have home intentionality data so we know what people are cooking at home. Part of that data, just to give an example, comes from smart fridges.
Kristin Demoranville (16:20)
Mmm.
Andreas (16:23)
So you know what's in people's fridges, you know what people are purchasing, how long it's in the fridge, are they actually using it, is it gets thrown away? All of that data again is available. And then the whole thing gets cross referenced against social media, so what people talking about. So we have all this massive data lake. And until you have an AI layer to deal with all of this data, all this data is really pretty useless.
We, I've seen so many examples in my life where companies had this huge data reports sitting on their desk and nobody ever touched them because the world was drowning in data, but what it was missing was deep insight. And AI allows us to go through this data and say, well, what do 35 year old men living in Portland, Oregon, what's important to them?
And looking at this data and having the access to data like I've just described, in addition to all kinds of other data as well, then allows us to go in and say, here is what a 35-year-old man who earns $80,000 a year works in, I don't know, publishing or manufacturing, doesn't matter. We can tell what's important to them. And AI is the tool that allows us to do this.
And it allows us, as I said earlier on, to bridge the say-do gap. When you put people into, when you ask people what's important to them, they start performing immediately because they want to be liked. And they start telling you things that are important to their peer groups. And if you have somebody who says, well, of course organic is important to me and equal rights for all and all that kind of stuff. And then you observe what people really buy and it's affordability, availability, and taste.
Kristin Demoranville (17:48)
It's true, yes.
Andreas (18:03)
Right? Those are three of the biggest purchase drivers. And when you have a focus group, you always have somebody like me who has lots of opinions and who's very tall and is perhaps a bit loud and all those kinds of things. My voice gets amplified because there might be somebody else who perhaps a little bit shy and doesn't want to cause waves and might strongly disagree with me. But because I'm noisy and I say, yeah, of course, this is how I feel about things. They may never say anything. And
Kristin Demoranville (18:03)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (18:30)
Even if you have a good moderator in the focus groups, that kind of bias is really hard to get rid of. You know, one of the things we always say as an example, if you want to observe, I don't know, a lion's behavior, you don't go to the zoo, you go to the savanna.
Kristin Demoranville (18:36)
Mm.
Andreas (18:47)
And AI and data together allow us to observe the lion in the savanna or the consumer in everyday life. And that sounds a little bit, that can sound a little bit negative, but the positive here really is when you do this and when you use this data, that you're putting products into the market that really matter to people. Right. And that actually improve people's lives.
by giving them the kind of nutrition choice that's important to them and that allows them to live their values. And I think without meaning to ramble on for too long, think a major example of this that we're observing right now is the rise of GLP-1 drugs And that's perhaps something that's worth exploring.
Kristin Demoranville (19:30)
Yeah, think what I like about this is that you're using data for consumer driven. It's not just industry driven or company driven. Don't get me wrong. I know you're trying to help companies make profit, but I like the idea of using consumer data for maybe a force of good rather than what can we just sell to these people? I'm sure there's people that are doing that anyways, but I like the idea that consumers are driving the market based on behavior
That's what I find unique about AI and this whole process of what's going on with data. And also I've warned people that if you're going to have a smart fridge, that your data was going to sold at some point. And it's so funny because we were like, well, why would somebody want to know what's in my refrigerator? I'm like, so they can mark it to you. And here we are. And you've just said it. This is happening. And this is again, yeah.
Andreas (20:15)
And it's happening everywhere. think, you know, as a consumer,
something you need to be aware of. Your car sells your data. Like if your car is younger than five years, your car manufacturer will sell your data, your driving data. If you're the reason televisions are so cheap these days, you know, you can pick up a, I don't know, 52 inch TV at Costco for three, four or 500 bucks sometimes, right?
Kristin Demoranville (20:20)
Yes.
Mm-hmm, it's true.
Andreas (20:40)
The reason it's so cheap is because the cost of the television isn't reflected in the cost that's being sold to you. The television collects all the data it possibly can to put you viewing habits, how long you watch commercials, and that gets sold on. So your behavior, your data subsidizes the cost. I bought a TV, a new television, I think last year, and it took me about an hour to convince it to start up without connecting to the internet.
And I connected it to Apple TV at the end of the day and I'm just using it as a dumb monitor. But it was really, really, really difficult to get this done because it insisted on immediately, the first thing insisted, it's just almost a network connection. And to work around this was only possible because I my way around technology. So all of these things are happening. I think the vast majority of people out there don't understand how much of their data is being used.
Kristin Demoranville (21:05)
A lot of work.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, they have no idea. And I think this is what gets scary because if we're using it for a force of good, there's a much larger group of people that are probably using for a force of evil or bad behavior. And I think about hackers and people in hacking gangs and nation state I do think that they are looking at this type of analytics as well to determine how they can socially engineer situations for
maybe disinformation, misinformation. And this is why it's so important. And this is why I wanted to have you on the show as well, to have a conversation about how data is being used in the food industry, how we're going to use it moving forward and looking ahead, and how we're going to continue to be a force of good with data and how we're going to move forward with it. I think that this, I don't want to get gloom and doom and scary. I think we do that a lot on the show, unfortunately, because yeah.
people mess with our food and people mess with things around our food. And it's terrifying. But I think being more proactive and understanding that you are, when you purchase something, whether it's your favorite food or something you're trying for the first time, you are part of the machine. You are part of the data pool, if you will. And that doesn't mean you need to like actively necessarily do anything as a consumer, but just making that understanding that that's happening. And more importantly, supporting brands and things that you value.
and you care about, I think is super important. And I know for sustainability efforts and the greater good, if you will, that's something that should be important to us as consumers. And again, I understand that people are just stressed out. They want to go buy their eggs and their bread, and they want to get it out of store as quick as possible. But you need to understand how that bread was made, how those eggs got to your grocery store.
being a conscious consumer is important. So this is why we're having a conversation about data and AI around your food.
Andreas (23:13)
Yeah.
You know, mean, to talk about the supply chain for a second, there is significant pressure on parts of the food supply chain that is a new thing. And...
Kristin Demoranville (23:18)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (23:30)
items, food items that in the past we have looked at as staples are turning into luxuries. So examples for this are coffee, olive oil, chocolate. Chocolate prices are sky high right now. Coffee prices are exploding right now and it hasn't really filtered through. Actually, I saw it filter through to the store shelf last week.
Kristin Demoranville (23:39)
Yes.
They really are.
Andreas (23:54)
where a coffee I normally buy, which used to be 14 bucks a pound, was 19 bucks a pound all of a sudden. And that's a massive, massive, massive increase, right? It's a Fairtrade organic brand that I like. But the increase in price was absolutely astronomical. And so I actually went to the store manager and said, whoa. And he shrugged his shoulders and said, yeah, I know. But the cost.
Kristin Demoranville (24:01)
Wow.
Andreas (24:19)
we're passing on the cost that is coming from our distributor and our distributor told us they're passing on the cost from the from the roasters. And I can't be mad at them because I can see what the increase in coffee prices are. So that's happening for olive oil. That's happening for coffee. That's happening for chocolate. It's going to continue to happen.
Kristin Demoranville (24:26)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (24:43)
And without meaning to sound like somebody who is spreading doom, gloom and all those kinds of things, I think we have benefited from a lot of food security in the last 50-60 years. And that element of food security has been accompanied by ever decreasing prices of food. You know, there has been a gentle drop.
Kristin Demoranville (24:50)
He
Andreas (25:07)
by how much of your income you had to spend on feeding yourself and your family. And the lowest price recently, the lowest sector of this was in 2007. And ever since 2007, food prices in real term, and this is exclusive of inflation, completely regardless of inflation, food prices have been going up. And food prices have been increasing.
Kristin Demoranville (25:27)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (25:33)
because, and you know, whether you believe in it or not, but because of climate change. That's a major driver in the increase in food prices. Climate change, not so much warming, but the rapid change from droughts to floods, for example. And it's been affecting a lot of food items, bananas, nuts.
As I said, chocolate coffee are two absolutely big ones. California had a massive drought.
Kristin Demoranville (25:58)
Wine, lots of,
yeah, and wine as well. It's affecting wine.
Andreas (26:02)
Wine is another big
one. In the past, in the last couple of decades, when there was a bad harvest somewhere, most of the time in the Western world, we were privileged enough to be able to equalize that out. There was a bad wheat harvest in the US and Canada. We bought wheat from Ukraine. Ukraine has been at war for four years.
Kristin Demoranville (26:16)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (26:24)
And so global conflict.
climate change, and also a growing middle class in countries that previously did not have a middle class. And I'm looking at India, I'm looking at China, I'm looking at the Middle East, where there are changed consumption habits. know, China has a rapidly growing appetite for coffee. And it's traditionally, it never used to be a coffee drinking culture.
Kristin Demoranville (26:34)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Andreas (26:51)
So in addition to there being a coffee shortage that is driven by climate change, there is now an increase in demand for coffee all over the world and all of these things together are driving up prices.
Kristin Demoranville (27:06)
It's incredible to think how interconnected everything is. And you just demonstrated that based on a few different points. And this is why I always say, you know, if you do something on one end of a system, it's going to have an issue on the other. And since the food system globally is the most complicated system humans have ever created, And now we're unraveling it trying to figure out how we can continue to have these items that we've grown accustomed to.
And it's going to be difficult because we're going to go without for a bit. think in some things it's sort of like overfishing as well. We've just depleted and now we're having to farm fish, which is crazy. If you think about it, we should have never had that problem, but because the way the world is, we have to adapt. And I think that's something I've realized that humans are either going to be really amazing at adapting or we're not. It's going to be what it is. it's really, it's really hard cause this puts a lot of pressure on farmers.
And you just said it, Ukraine's been at war for four years. Their topsoil is destroyed at this point. And they're going to have to rebuild literally
Andreas (28:04)
You know, it's hugely frustrating because wildfires, don't care at all about your politics.
Kristin Demoranville (28:09)
No, they don't.
Andreas (28:10)
They don't care about who you voted for. They affect everybody, perhaps not equally. know, money buys a certain amount of buffer, of course, as it typically does, but it does affect absolutely everybody. you know, we talked about this a little bit earlier on. think a lot of the, don't want to blame it completely on external influences, but a lot of the separation that we're seeing in society, well, like, you know, you versus me.
There is an element of foreign influence there. There are a gazillion Chinese trolls factories, Russian troll factories that have a very strong interest in Canadians, Americans fracturing into tribes that don't talk to each other anymore. And I think that is a real tragedy because when you talk to people, know, when you talk, I have,
Kristin Demoranville (28:52)
Yes.
Andreas (29:00)
friends who vote directly opposite to my own voting patterns. But they're still friends and they're still decent people. And I think, you know, at the end of the day, most people love their family and by extension love their country and their community. And it would be such an important thing to work through our differences.
Kristin Demoranville (29:04)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (29:20)
and solve the problems that will affect us and will affect our children. you know, there is this narrative that people who are on the business side of things find it difficult to be environmental stewards. But my story is, my understanding is, if there isn't a planet to run a business on, what the heck are you going to do? You haven't got a business.
Kristin Demoranville (29:33)
Mm-hmm.
Yep,
Andreas (29:41)
So to protect
Kristin Demoranville (29:41)
exactly.
Andreas (29:42)
the planet and to run a business that is ethical, that protects the planet, looks after people, look after the environment, for me personally, that's just the business sense.
Kristin Demoranville (29:51)
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Exactly. And the wildfires made me remember I had a guest a few episodes back last year and we were talking about whenever there's an incident, it actually it's a community problem. It's not a global problem necessarily in that moment. It's not a nation problem at that moment. It's a community problem. So these wildfires affect communities. And because we don't have a good understanding of where our food comes from.
there's food insecurity immediately. Where's our water? Obviously, that's a problem in that community at the moment. There's all these factors that focus on community at a very acute level. And we are so disengaged from community. We have like pockets of community here and there. Like technically, I am part of a podcasting community. I'm part of the food communities. So those kind of conversations are still there, but those are very broad. But the community of people and
that you live near, we don't have relationships with anymore. I don't know my neighbors. But moving forward, my parents know their neighbors. They actively have those relationships. They talk about food. They understand that. It's a different perspective. And I think we've lost that. And I think that because of that,
That's why we almost have to rely on data so much now because we've lost that ability to have that type of community aspect. And I think that in order to be more sustainable, environmentally conscious, we have to start coming back to community. that's, I know that's daunting. It's probably going to be a generational thing for sure. But moving forward, especially when we're talking about consuming different types of food and where we get it from and how we track that.
it'd be interesting to see how communities, is it more on this, lean on this side, or is it more on this side? they purchasing more carrots or are they purchasing more fast food? Just as a curious person, I would be interested in seeing that.
Andreas (31:37)
community it's it's really interesting that you bring this up and One of the things that I've observed one of my wife's superpowers of which she has many One of my wife's superpowers is community building She is exceptionally good at it and We live in a neighborhood, you know, it's all
Kristin Demoranville (31:40)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (31:57)
houses, homes, it's very sort of downtown ish kind of stuff. So houses are all old, both live in Victorian homes. And I want to say in my immediate sort of two, three blocks around my house or two blocks around my house, I know about 50 % of the people who live there. That's entirely due to my wife's efforts. And because she naturally connects with people and I just I'm just along for the ride and say, somebody knew to meet.
Kristin Demoranville (32:03)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Hahaha.
Andreas (32:21)
But one of the things that I observed, you know, she again, this is sort of a Christmas thing, a holiday thing. We have a holiday open house. And that's something that she started. And it's the I think it's the second Saturday in December. And we just throw the house open. We have, you know, some some food going. We have a lot of mild wine going. We have a fire going in the backyard where people can sit around and, you know, enjoy. And we have malt cider for those who don't drink.
And I'm finding that if you give people the opportunity to develop community, they're starving for it.
Kristin Demoranville (32:54)
Yes.
It's so true. It's so true. I would totally agree with that. And it starts with food. Like you said, you have food, a little alcohol, you have non-alcoholic, and that is the thing that brings us all together. And this is where I will get on my soapbox for a moment and get frustrated is why aren't we protecting it better? Why aren't we securing food better for the world, for our communities? Why aren't we doing the most? because
Andreas (33:01)
Yeah?
Kristin Demoranville (33:20)
The people who want to do harm to us are doing the most to get to it and to hurt us because it would drive division, more political division. would drive communities to ruin. would cause mayhem and chaos, which we all know that evil thrives in that moment, right? Or whatever adversaries thrive in that moment. And I think if we get back to the grassroots of community and I, and I love what you're doing with six seeds, cause in some ways you're taking that data and you're building community with these founders.
and helping them understand the communities that they're trying to serve, whether that's to make money or to serve a purpose such as, I don't know, a different type of dietary food or anything to that regard. I think that that's really what your mission is in some ways, is that community building. So I don't think your wife's just the community builder in your household. I think you're also doing it on a business level.
Andreas (34:02)
Yeah.
Yeah, that's a really, I gotta be honest, I haven't thought about it like this before, but it was fascinating. I did a little thing that I've learned on LinkedIn. And so we use AI in our daily business an awful lot. And one of the things I tell people is when they say, well, know, too many tools and all that kind of stuff, and I don't know what to use. We use ChatGPT.
Kristin Demoranville (34:19)
Okay.
Yeah, I do too.
Andreas (34:34)
for a whole bunch of things, which are low level helpful. They're not like, let's formulate the next, I don't know, rocket fuel or something. They make your life easier and they give you like a 20 % edge. And so as a result of this, a result of why we use this so much as a tool and we build our own little custom tools that we use and we have our workflows that we use and all those kinds of things. But ChantGPT knows an awful lot about me.
Kristin Demoranville (34:36)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (34:59)
and which I'm perfectly happy with because the more it knows about me the more helpful it can become. And so a friend of mine posted this thing and said, hey, type into chat GPT and if you're listening and if you're using chat GPT, try this because it's fun. Tell me something about myself that's based on our interaction that you think I might not know myself.
Kristin Demoranville (35:05)
That's right.
Andreas (35:19)
And it came back to me and it says, you're a bridge builder and you are constantly figuring out how to connect humanity with data and machines and making them work well together. And it just, came to mind as you were talking about communities. you know, and I, I thought at the time that that was very
Kristin Demoranville (35:24)
Mm-hmm. I can see that.
Andreas (35:42)
Hard to call it insightful, but again, it's pattern recognition, and AI is really good at pattern recognition. It's pattern recognition followed by the ability to verbalize those patterns in a way that makes sense to us as humans.
Um, last year we were invited to join an RFP that I didn't want to join because I thought there was zero chance that we win this. was, you know, it was a much, much bigger project. It wasn't, didn't feel right. And then we had an internal conversation where I said, you know what, let's do this. And the reason we wanted to do it was not
you know, was going from we never get we went in with the knowledge we never going to win this. But it was stretch your muscles, figure things out, see how far we can take it. So it was an internal exercise. And then we got shortlisted. And I went from complete negativity, complete unfounded negativity, I went to equally unfounded optimism in a split second. And I was like, of course, we're gonna win this, right? We're gonna get this. Let's just put everything behind it. So I switched from never to yes, we got this. And we didn't get it.
Kristin Demoranville (36:28)
Mmm.
Andreas (36:45)
And I reacted with completely unjustified disappointment. I was so angry. was so disappointed. And it was like, you know, I think to myself, you know, only two weeks ago, I was, I knew we're not going to win this. So why am I now be reacting like this? And so I took our dog, for a walk, put my headphones in, put chat GPT in voice mode.
And I ranted at it and I said, God, you know, I'm feeling so angry and so disappointed and so let down. I told it the whole story. And it honestly, gently talked me off the ledge, you know, and it said, look, why did you do this? And I said, well, I did it so we could put some new SOPs in place and took some learning and then says, well, have you achieved those goals? And I said, yes. And then I pretty much said, well, what are you complaining about? Why are you whining so much?
Kristin Demoranville (37:34)
So, chat GPT the therapist. Like, that's a new one.
Andreas (37:37)
I used
it straight up as a therapist and I was surprised by how good it was. And I've since talked to some of my friends who actually work in mental health and they all say the same thing. It makes an absolutely brilliant first cut therapist.
Again, like very often in AI, it takes you to that 80 % in 20 % of the time.
What I'm hearing is that a lot of people who are in mental health, look at it and say it's actually quite a valuable tool, not a replacement, which it never should be, but a valuable tool to help people get to a place where we can help them more.
Kristin Demoranville (38:12)
See, I
don't think a good mental health professional shouldn't be intimidated by this. It's just another tool. Like we talked about before the show starts, AI is a tool. It doesn't mean that it's the savior or the be-all-end-all, omnipotent thing. It's just a tool. It's like a hammer.
Andreas (38:27)
Gotta go a little bit philosophical now. There is...
Kristin Demoranville (38:29)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (38:31)
When people have bad experiences with AI and they come to you and say, well, AI sucks. I told it to do this and it's crap and it doesn't know how many Rs are in strawberry. That is very often the reason behind this is that people are trying to outsource their why. And you can't do that. There are
Kristin Demoranville (38:52)
Mm.
Andreas (38:55)
things and these are words from the that might not be in common use so one of these words we call meaning making and the other word we call sense making and I talk about this a lot I give a lot of keynotes about these things so human beings are really good at meaning making we're really good about deciding what matters to us and a lot of new food products
They come into the world big almost exclusively powered by meaning-making. I'm launching this product to honor my grandmother's recipes and the heritage of my family. That is one of the most common origin stories we hear in food and drink.
Kristin Demoranville (39:35)
Sure, by now that I think about it.
Andreas (39:36)
AI, right? So
that's meaning making. These kinds of things is meaning making, right? Things I decide what matters to me, what I'm studying, what food I like, and all these kinds of things. And that's wonderful. The AI, on the other hand, is really good at sense making. All right, Kristin you want to launch, or Andreas, you are going to launch a product that
Honours the grandmother that was so important to you when you were a teenager and so supportive even though they didn't deserve it. You you want to launch a product at Honourser. Now let AI do the sense making. Let's have a look. What is going on? Is there a market for this kind of product? How much can you make this product for? How can we optimize the supply chain?
Kristin Demoranville (40:06)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (40:23)
What do consumers think about this product? Is it yet another chocolate chip cookie and we don't need another chocolate chip cookie? Right? Or is it something that is not just unique and important to you and the people you love, but is this something that is important to the larger market? And that's where AI comes in. So in an ideal world,
Kristin Demoranville (40:30)
Yes. We really don't.
Andreas (40:47)
what AI will do. And this is where I think so many people fall flat. They don't understand the difference between meaning making and sense making. Having access to AI doesn't mean you can be
Kristin Demoranville (40:56)
Hmm.
Andreas (40:59)
lazy. I'm not sure if lazy is the right word. But having access to it doesn't mean you can't outsource the reason you're doing this work. You, as a human, need to define why this is a thing that should be a thing. And then you can use all the amazing tools that we talked about in our conversation so far to make this thing a thing.
And maybe when you're looking at the data, when you're looking at the behavior, when you're looking at what's important, maybe you decide to tweak the thing. So, for example, right now, if you have a thing in food that is high in sugar, low in nutrients and high in calories, that's not a thing I would bring to market. Why not? Because of Ozempic and GLP-1 drugs.
Kristin Demoranville (41:48)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (41:48)
And so when we are looking and the data just came out in December, the actual first real data, people who are on GLP One drugs have a 10 % reduction in purchasing those kinds of things, cookies, snacks.
Kristin Demoranville (42:01)
Only 10 %?
I would think it'd be a lot more than that. Wow.
Andreas (42:04)
The
data says 10 % right now, but that is significant.
Kristin Demoranville (42:08)
That
Andreas (42:09)
But those are all, so to go back to what we were talking about, focus on that the trick to making AI work strangely and perhaps counter-intuitively is to focus on what makes you human.
Kristin Demoranville (42:13)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm, that's quotable.
Andreas (42:26)
and
then use AI to amplify that humanity.
Kristin Demoranville (42:30)
I think you need to make t-shirts because that definitely that resonates with me big time. Yeah, absolutely. And this is why people don't need to be afraid of it. They just need to work with it and understand it. This means everybody needs to use AI, but it is going to be part of our daily life. It already is part of our daily lives. What am I talking about? We're just talking about it's part of our daily lives, but just understanding where it is and where it exists is important. It doesn't have to be in every aspect of your life.
Andreas (42:32)
Hahaha
Kristin Demoranville (42:57)
you can still do things without it. I mean, that's very much the case. You can go analog, if you will. But I think that understanding that this isn't going away. It's going to become more predominant in our lives. I'm really, somebody said, was an interview that I was watching or something a couple days back that was talking about how where we are with AI right now is where the internet was around like 97, 98. And then like,
Whoa, that like, was like a mind explosion to me because we're just at the beginning. We're just at the beginning stages of how this is going to become and how it's going to grow. And on one half, that's so exciting. But then the security side of me goes, God, you know, and, know, you just go, goodness, how is this going to be exploited? It's going to be really interesting moving forward. And I'm so excited that you are working with these founders and trying to help them.
come to a better understanding of what data is for their business and how they can use it to succeed rather than use the old phrase, throw spaghetti at the wall and hope it sticks. Because we've moved past that.
Andreas (44:01)
You know, there is, so there's and I might be misquoting here, so don't get at me if you're getting angry emails from people saying it wasn't him who said that. I believe it was Jeff Bezos who said AI is like electricity. So it is not actually a thing in itself, but it is a thing that makes the thing possible. And I strongly believe him to be right. AI will be everywhere.
Kristin Demoranville (44:09)
Yeah
sense.
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (44:23)
We have, and tell me if you agree or disagree with this, but it is a theory of mine, pet theory that in the past 10, 20, 15 years, we have looked to challenger brands to bring innovation and to drive innovation. Right? It was never the Nestle's, it was never the PepsiCo's, like those big international CPG giants.
Kristin Demoranville (44:40)
Hmm.
Andreas (44:51)
typically were interested in the maintenance of the status quo.
and the challenger brands were bringing innovation to market.
That's flipping.
Kristin Demoranville (45:02)
Is it?
Andreas (45:02)
All the big companies in the world have been investing in AI and data for the last five, 10, 15 years, as you said earlier on for a long time. And, you know, I know the, some of the people who run those labs and what they do and the resources they pump behind it. going back to GLP One drugs
Kristin Demoranville (45:11)
yeah.
Andreas (45:23)
All the innovation, the new products that I see hitting the market that are specifically designed for GLP-1 users. And there is some estimation that by 2030, nearly 40 % of people in the US will have been or will be a GLP-1 user. All of these products are coming from the Nestle's, the big companies. And I'm seeing very little innovation in that aspect.
coming from the traditional challenger brands. And I understand from firsthand experience how difficult and challenging it is to run a CPG company, to start a food and drink company. But if you are running a company, maybe not even a startup, maybe you are in that middle space where you're selling $50 million a year, but you're still not one of the big players.
Kristin Demoranville (46:09)
Hmm.
Andreas (46:11)
If you are not investing in data, in AI at this stage, then you are creating a headwind for yourself that will be difficult to overcome. I I put a quote out there that I strongly believe in 2025, there will be two kinds of companies, CPG, food and drink companies, those that embrace AI and use it as a tool to further their
business and those that were bankrupt. And I see way, way, way, way too many food entrepreneurs to this day that are fighting tooth and nail against these things. They are not taking it seriously or they're actively diminishing it or they just don't feel like this is relevant for them. And I fear for the future of their businesses.
Kristin Demoranville (46:38)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
I would say that that is so true. And I think that the supporting industries also need to embrace AI. Otherwise, they're going to not be able to keep up with anything really. I think about the operational technology community that I'm in, that these companies are going to have to start embracing AI more. And it's almost a dirty word at times. And I really think we need to get past that stigma. We can't say AI a lot. We have to say intelligence.
because people get a little uppity about it. And yes, there are security concerns in AI. And yes, there are things that need to be dealt with on a privacy level. Absolutely. This is again, why consumers need to be educated. This is why people need to keep an eye on what they're doing with their data. This is why scams prevail so much is because people are not educated. I think it comes back to disinformation, misinformation in a way that if it makes you have an emotional reaction, you need to immediately have some kind of scrutiny about it.
Same with AI, you have to be a little, you you have to kind of look at it with a little bit of grain of salt. You're not going to take it verbatim. We've already seen those posts. We've seen that. We've seen people put that off directly. That's a little weird. But I think that you're right. I think people need to start paying attention to it. And like you said, it's a tool. It's recognizing patterns. It's processing a lot of data. Wouldn't it be great to be able to process a lot of data and make better decisions because you have had a big data pool to look at rather than the small little focus groups?
That makes like, it's logical. It's not, this is not an emotional thing. This is logical thing. And I think that that's the way the future is going to go with the food industry even more than it has now. And also technology needs to adapt to it and be secure while it's adapting to it as well. And that's something that's a challenge in itself. But yeah.
Andreas (48:33)
You
know when the printing press first was developed in the Western world, right? There is this anecdote, this story, where it was brought to Paris and it was the first printing press. It was installed at the Sorbonne, the university in Paris. And within two months, it had been burned down by an angry mob of scribes who came in there, pitchfork and torch in hand, and they burned the thing down.
Kristin Demoranville (48:37)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Andreas (48:58)
that they looked at as a fundamental threat, correctly so, as a fundamental threat to their livelihood and to everything that they stood for. And the same arguments we're hearing about against AI today were used by scribes in medieval times against the printing press. It's not a real book. It doesn't have the same emotional value than a handwritten book. It doesn't do this, it doesn't do this.
Kristin Demoranville (49:23)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (49:25)
And of course, we know which way history went, right? We know that literacy went from 12 % to 55 % within 150 years. The Age of Enlightenment, the Renaissance, were 100, perhaps not 100%, but were hugely powered by the development of the printing press. All these...
Kristin Demoranville (49:28)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (49:48)
things that in the long run, and when you look at the balance sheet, mean, they also powered colonialism, also powered a lot of those kinds of things, but when you look at the balance sheet in general, I think they have been good for humanity rather than bad for humanity. I think it's better to where we're now than where we were 500 years ago on the whole. Not dismissing suffering that has been caused and unfairness that has happened as a result of this, but...
The same thing or similar things are happening today where if we use AI as a tool to move humanity forward, to develop medicines that have never been possible before, to find new ways of feeding the population, to figure out mysteries that we haven't had access to to this day. I think I'm positive about technology.
Kristin Demoranville (50:38)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (50:39)
To such a degree, know, part of the exercise I asked early on, tell me about something about myself that I don't know. I also asked, tell me something about myself that I might not want to hear. And it came back and it told me, you tend to be overly optimistic about technology and the abilities of technology to change the world for the better. So that's my personal bias.
Kristin Demoranville (51:00)
I
mean, if that's your flaw, I'm like, that's okay. Like, it's not like you, you know, say something like, you want to conquer the world or something like that. That's what would be very negative. I think that's, I think optimism is what we're going to need moving forward, especially because there's a lot of bad stuff going on and there's a lot of complicated problems that are happening. And I think optimism is how we're going to see through it, a lot of it. And that doesn't mean that we're rainbows and sunshine every day. That's not true. That's we're human beings. We're going to have our days.
Andreas (51:07)
Bye.
Kristin Demoranville (51:28)
But I think that we have to be more positive. And especially since, you know, this podcast at times can focus very heavily on a lot of negative things that are happening. And unfortunately there will be episodes that are going to happen this year with that. But I want to, I want people to hear that there's a silver lining. There are people doing good work. There are people trying to help. are, community that are happening, that are rising up to, to fight the things that are happening or to encourage a more positive outcome.
You know, I, I've meant to mention this earlier, but when we were talking about how luxury items and convenience items are flipping, you made me think about lobster. Lobster was originally served to peasants. wasn't actually considered a luxury item food. And all of a sudden it became this luxury item food over a certain period of time. And now it's become expensive and it's still considered a luxury item, but originally it was peasant food, if you will. And I feel like we might have this resurgence of certain things that are flipping like.
caviar has always been viewed as very much a luxury item and now it's becoming more of a middle-class thing. And it's, it's interesting how food is changing and perspectives are changing because first of all, availability, we can get food pretty much anytime, anywhere. There's no seasons in the grocery store. I feel like there's going to be ebbs and flows here and adjustment. And I really do think that AI is going to drive a lot of that because if people are really enjoying caviar in the middle of a country and they have to get it.
Well, let's figure that out. That's something that would happen. It's going to be really interesting to see which food brands rise to the top and which ones don't. And I think you're totally spot on when you said that AI is going to be key. I also think that people who are embracing technology, making sure it's secure, keeping consumers aware.
I do think we're eventually going to see some type of a digitally secure product label at some point. That's going to happen.
Andreas (53:11)
You know, I'm writing a book right now, which should be out the summer of this year. And one of the stories in there is about a friend of mine. lives in Atlanta. She has a very successful senior executive in the HR industry. And for as long as I've known her, she's been harping on about her desire to pack it all in and start a bakery. We've known each other for like 25 years.
Kristin Demoranville (53:20)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (53:35)
She's always been going on about it and to such a degree that it has become a little bit of a joke within the friends group It's like yeah. Yeah, you know, whatever and then
We spoke, we hadn't spoken for a while, and I want to say about three months after ChatGPT got launched, we spoke and she says, guess what? And I said, guess what, what? And she said, I'm doing it. And I said, you're doing what? She said, I'm starting my bakery. And I said, why? What made the, why now? What happened? And she said, ChatGPT happened. And.
She used chat GPT. it turns out one and I knew this before, but one of her fears or one of her many fears was I don't understand how commercial real estate works. And I'm scared about signing leases and all these kinds of things. And she said, you know, I just started asking chat GPT all these questions that worried me. And I found out that there was really nothing to worry about.
Kristin Demoranville (54:17)
Mm.
Andreas (54:32)
I get an offer from a landlord, I uploaded this chat GPT and I said, explain this to me. And it sat with me and explained to me what I was signing until I felt comfortable signing it. And then, you know, she, used all kinds of ideas for, to develop a menu, to develop a, a consumer persona and all these kinds of things that she knew from her corporate career were important. And she said, you know what? I, I now feel that whenever.
Kristin Demoranville (54:42)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (54:57)
I'm worried I have somebody to ask, to go to and ask and they'll have the expertise to talk me through. And that pinged me in a direction where I was thinking that access to expertise is such a blessing.
specifically to people who would otherwise perhaps be scared or worried about asking questions. So, for example, I was sitting in a meeting, this is about half a year ago, with a virtual meeting with a Swedish group of venture capitalists, VCs. They were using language I didn't understand, acronyms and language I didn't understand, not just Swedish, but in English, but they were using language I didn't understand. I am in a...
Kristin Demoranville (55:33)
Mm-hmm. Always.
Andreas (55:40)
position in my life where I can just put up my hand and say, explain this to me. I don't know. I don't understand. I've long ago given up to worry about if I sound stupid. Like I'm zero problems with that. You know, explain this to me. I don't get it. But as I was thinking this, I was thinking, you know, what if I'd be 22 and perhaps somebody who isn't in a position where they don't care?
Kristin Demoranville (55:49)
you
Andreas (56:04)
what people think about because I have enough power and I have enough of a position in life to weather that storm should it happen. And so I thought, you know, I'm going to just ask chat GPT and I popped in so you see I'm doing this. using this language. What does it mean? And within five seconds I had an explanation and I was back up. I was informed. So I was thinking, you know, there is this massive power in AI to help people learn
and improve and become maybe not experts, but become proficient in things that they were never proficient about without having to worry about, can I afford this? Can I afford a lawyer, a real estate lawyer? Can I afford a Swedish finance teacher or any of those things? Now, again,
Kristin Demoranville (56:47)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (56:49)
before you get angry emails. know that Chad GPT is not a lawyer and before you make any significant conversations, decisions, you should always talk to a real lawyer. But at least it'll get you somewhere where you have a starting point and you can say, my understanding of this is one, two, three. Is this true and can we move on from here? And for me, is such a powerful springboard.
Kristin Demoranville (57:08)
I think it opens up curiosity too. It's a curiosity thing.
Oh yeah, I love that aspect. I'm a curious person by nature. So for me, this is like, yes, like this is great. I can learn all these things and then I can go out and find more things. And it leads you down these rabbit holes. That's just awesome. I think it's such a great tool for that perspective. Congratulations to your friend. Like that's amazing to be able to go from a state of fear.
to a state of ablement is incredible. That's incredible.
I just, that just, I love that. That's such a great story. Like that, I resonate with that heavily and that's, it's a beautiful moment and congratulations on the book too. But as we're closing here, cause this has been a fabulous conversation. What advice would you give food founders that are coming up? I do have a couple of guests that are food founders that are going to be on the show this year. What advice would you give them?
Andreas (57:49)
Thank you.
Kristin Demoranville (58:01)
as they start their journey because it is daunting. It is difficult. It's very rewarding as well how they navigate this space moving forward as a consumer product.
Andreas (58:11)
Yeah.
AI is really good at understanding systems.
Kristin Demoranville (58:14)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (58:15)
humans unless they are from that system.
find it very often quite daunting to understand this system specifically if it has an element of complexity which the food system has. The good news is that for many food founders there is the steps are repeatable. So the food system that we currently have for better or for worse means you
probably going to start working in your home kitchen. The next step very often is working with a co-packer. From a co-packer, you either stay with the co-packer or you launch your own manufacturing process. You probably going to start selling or at least you should start selling on the farmers market, get consumer feedback and then from there you get your first retail accounts and then perhaps you get a distributor and all these kinds of things. Now, the reason so many people fail, we talked about earlier on, they walk this forest by themselves and every time they see something new,
They are faced with decisions they are very often ill prepared or ill prepared to make. The wonderful thing is that because it's a system, AI can help you through this system. Margin expectations don't care if you are making a bone broth or a cookie. They're the same. What is similar, right? Understanding the market.
Kristin Demoranville (59:27)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (59:31)
the same for whatever product you're putting on the importance of this. Understanding MCBs, manufacturer charge backs from your distributor, is universal. It's a universal product. So my advice would be know your emotional north star.
You're a human, why are you putting this into the world? Is it because you have a child with allergies? Is it because you want to honor your heritage? Is it because you think there is a gap in the market that makes you a lot of money? That's also a perfectly fair reason why people start businesses. have zero problems with that.
Kristin Demoranville (1:00:02)
Mm-hmm.
Andreas (1:00:06)
Put this to one side and then start conversations with AI and saying, this is what I'm trying to put into the world. Now help me figure out how to best do this. one bit of advice, one, perhaps not advice, yeah, perhaps, different. One thing that has changed things for me.
dramatically is my personal interactions with machines.
have changed is voice mode. And I cannot recommend this highly enough. When you are trying to figure out what you want to do,
and what's important to you, partly, I think, because AI is so good at recognizing patterns. Talk to it. Put headphones in. Go for a walk. People will just think you're on the phone. They don't think you're a madman or madwoman talking to a computer. They just think you're on the phone. And have this chat with AI.
Kristin Demoranville (1:00:50)
Mm-hmm.
It's true.
Andreas (1:01:04)
Generative AI, as it stands today, the tools we have access to as people, consumer tools, they work best in a conversational interface. Give it what you want to put in and then don't take the answer and say, yeah, that's it. Go back on the answer and say, well, know, that sounds interesting, but what I really want to do, I really want to make sure that I'm...
Kristin Demoranville (1:01:15)
Hmm.
Andreas (1:01:29)
that I'm focusing on this story, this story that's important to me. How can I translate this into ingredients? And by the way, while we're having this conversation, before I forget, I also wanted to ask you, these are my waste ingredients that say coffee grounds. My waste ingredients are coffee grounds, spent coffee grounds. What can I do with those instead of throwing them away?
Kristin Demoranville (1:01:37)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Andreas (1:01:53)
Can I do anything? What's in there that's of value? Well, the following things are in there. You can extract the oils, can use it as a fertilizer, you can do the following things with it. know, all those interesting things. There's a slug repellent. Okay, so when I'm launching my store, could I give this away with a little brand and say, you know, put this around your flowers? Yes, you could. That would be great. And that would be part of your brand story. So have these conversations with AI. Don't
Look at it as a search engines, which is like a one shot. You ask it one thing, you take the answer and there you go. the answer is typically, first answer typically isn't very good and very formed out. So talk to it like you and I are talking right now and have these long meandering conversations with it. And at the end of the conversation, you say, we've been talking for the last two hours. Tell me what we've been talking about.
and extract the stuff that's the most important. And then start playing with those kinds of things and it'll, guarantee you, it'll blow your mind. The kind of insight, the depth of insight that you're getting out of this and how that allows you to move faster, better to something that supports your human soul and brings it into the world in a way that you never thought was possible before.
Kristin Demoranville (1:02:46)
Mm-hmm.
That is that's almost beautiful. Thank you for that. And thank you for this. This was so enlightening and entertaining and fun for me. I hope the listeners enjoyed it just as much as I did because I learned a lot. actually took a ton of notes and obviously you can't see it. But yes, I do write notes when I'm talking to my guests. But this was fantastic. Thank you so much for being here and really appreciate your time. And I'll make sure all your contact information, everybody can get to them in the show notes. Please make sure you do reach out because
Obviously, he's just a bundle of wisdom and fun. And even though you are tall and lanky, as you were saying originally, you've definitely been feeding the world with your wisdom and your love of humanity and positivity. So thank you very much.
Andreas (1:03:47)
Thanks for having me on. Yeah, and anybody like I'm really easy to find. You can Google me, you can ping me on LinkedIn, and I'm always interested in talking to people doing interesting things. Thank you.
Kristin Demoranville (1:03:56)
Great, thank you.
